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Subject: "Talent" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Conferences What's Happening Topic #841
Reading Topic #841
Kate R

25-07-00, 12:31 PM (GMT)
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"Talent"
 
   Apropos Ms Sacks's review in the Standard today who considers that Nicholas le Riche is "no technical match for Guillem".

I would have said that he is the most technically gifted male dancer of his generation.

She does not suggest who might be a match. Any views?


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Talent alison 25-07-00 1
     RE: Talent jhanner 25-07-00 2
  RE: Talent Bruce Madmin 25-07-00 3
     RE: Talent alison 25-07-00 4
         RE: Talent Kate R 25-07-00 5
             RE: Talent Marie 26-07-00 6
                 RE: Talent Kate R 26-07-00 7
                     RE: Talent Marie 26-07-00 12
                         RE: Talent Kate R 26-07-00 15
                             RE: Talent Liz P 27-07-00 16
  RE: Talent Anneliese 26-07-00 8
     RE: Talent Bruce Madmin 26-07-00 11
         RE: Talent Marie 26-07-00 13
  RE: ... and Giselle alison 26-07-00 9
     RE: ... talent CateH 26-07-00 10
         RE: ... talent Marie 26-07-00 14
  RE: Talent Bruce Madmin 30-07-00 17
     RE: Talent eugene merrett 30-07-00 18
         RE: Male dancers whose technique matches Guillem's Susy 31-07-00 19
             RE: Male dancers whose technique matches Guillem's Kate R 02-08-00 21
                 RE: Male dancers whose technique matches Guillem's Susy 02-08-00 22
                     RE: Male dancers whose technique matches Guillem's Kate R 02-08-00 23
  Le Riche Interview Bruce Madmin 02-08-00 20
  RE: Talent Catherine 03-08-00 24
     RE: Talent Susy 03-08-00 25

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alison

25-07-00, 01:21 PM (GMT)
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1. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #0
 
   Well, obviously in that case nobody could be .


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jhanner

25-07-00, 05:47 PM (GMT)
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2. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #1
 
   Lionel Blair ??????


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Bruce Madmin

25-07-00, 09:52 PM (GMT)
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3. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #0
 
   Ummm... I have to say I find it hard to think of a male dancer on a par with Guillem at the moment. I have not seen enough of Le Riche but what little I have seen does not lead me to conclude that I just have to go a long way out of my way to see more. Whereas the first time I saw Legris I was totally memorised.

At the moment the dancer I'm really looking forward to seeing much more of is Kobborg...


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alison

25-07-00, 10:43 PM (GMT)
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4. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #3
 
   Me too, but unfortunately you could hardly pair him with Guillem (except in a certain role in Elite Syncopations, perhaps). Really looking forward to seeing him in La Fille Mal Gardée.


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Kate R

25-07-00, 11:39 PM (GMT)
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5. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #4
 
   Bruce, I am afraid I have to disagree with what you say about Manuel Legris. There is no doubt that he is a very talented dancer but he does not have the quality of movement of le Riche.

I have seen both dancers in La Bayadere and really I found Legris vin ordinaire.


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Marie

26-07-00, 08:09 AM (GMT)
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6. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #5
 
   Kate, I totally agree with you about Legris being a very ordinary dancer and about Le Riche having a quality of movement.Legris is an over-rated dancer.He dances well but that is all.He is not as convincing as Le Riche.Legris is a businessman and a clerk and Le Riche is an artist:all the difference is here.


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Kate R

26-07-00, 08:47 AM (GMT)
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7. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #6
 
   I also think that le Riche has more to give. I have been watching him for a number of years and he just gets better and better. He has developed from an astounding technician into a true artist.

I saw his Albrecht earlier this month and found his interpretation very interesting and different to the standard portrayal based on "he realised too late that he loved her after all". I felt that le Riche's Albrecht never really loved Giselle. He kept his aristocratic bearing throughout and walked away from the grave not really sure that it had all happened. Different but I think equally valid.


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Marie

26-07-00, 10:59 PM (GMT)
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12. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #7
 
   Kate,for how long have you seen Le Riche?
I was not able to see his Albrecht this month but I saw it 2 years ago.It's true that Le Riche has always very personal and original interpretations of classical roles.About Giselle,he has probably chosen to be a cynical Albrecht ,not an innocent Albrecht.There could be more different interpretations,they are all interesting.


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Kate R

26-07-00, 11:32 PM (GMT)
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15. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #12
 
  
I saw the Giselle a couple of weeks ago. You are quite right about the cynicism. I said that it was a valid interpretation because he was consistent. He did not have a sudden fit of remorse at the grave side. At the end he picked up his cloak and wandered off. Hence my comment that he was not sure that it had all really happened.

The most interesting part of the weekend was being able to contrast the interpretation of M Hilaire which is much more passionate - you believe he really regrets what he has lost.

I have just come back form the performance at the ROH tonight. Perhaps it is happy memories of the Palais Garnier but I thought that M Hilaire was not on the form he can produce. Having said that, it was still pretty damn good.


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Liz P

27-07-00, 00:07 AM (GMT)
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16. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #15
 
   Kate, it's good to hear of another Nicolas fan. I've seen him dance about twenty times now and regularly try to get to Paris to see him dance. I first saw him dance in swan Lake with M.C Pietragalla and was stunned. My reaction to dance is a very 'unschooled' one and I have no technical dance vocabulary to describe how I feel but all I can say is that his humanity and masculinity shine through his dancing in a way that I have rarely found with other dancers. It was with mixed feelings that I went to see him in London (my 1st and only trip to Covent Garden!)as I wasn't sure that I wanted him to be 'discovered' by other English fans!! Does anyone know any more about him dancing Romeo & Juliet with Sylvie Guillem this year?


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Anneliese

26-07-00, 11:53 AM (GMT)
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8. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #0
 
   Well, if M. Le Riche were not good enough for Mlle Guillem I don't think she'd put up with him!


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Bruce Madmin

26-07-00, 04:16 PM (GMT)
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11. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #8
 
   Very true!

She dances more with Jonathan Cope I think... what might that imply about the standing of Cope and Le Riche?!


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Marie

26-07-00, 11:05 PM (GMT)
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13. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #11
 
   The fact that Guillem dances more often with Cope than Le Riche is because she is at the Royal Ballet and she has to have a current partner at and from the Royal Ballet.I don't think it has something to do with the standing of one or another.


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alison

26-07-00, 12:49 PM (GMT)
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9. "RE: ... and Giselle"
In response to message #0
 
   On a similar subject, Sarah Frater in today's Metro (freebie paper run by the Evening Standard, given out at tube stations) claims that Guillem and Hilaire "are two of the few dancers who can bring credibility to this ballet ". Funny, I always thought that Guillem rather stuck out like the proverbial sore thumb in this production, and also thought I'd seen rather a few "credible" performances of it over the last decade, including Durante/Mukhamedov at Sadler's Wells last year.

Anyone else want to comment?


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CateH

26-07-00, 04:00 PM (GMT)
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10. "RE: ... talent"
In response to message #9
 
   Hi. I'm an infrequent poster here.

It's likely that many will disagree, but I would consider Acosta as having the most flashy, easiest technique right now. Obviously because their individual height Guillem and Acosta are not compatable as partners, but I could not help but notice Acosta's perfect physique. With their long lines and extraordinary ability to take risks on stage, I could not help but compare the two virtuosos. Am I totally off the mark?

On a similar note: I once read, I believe in the POB postings, that Guillem refuses to be partnered by Manuel Legris. I'm curious as to what event caused this, if it is not a rumour.

For anyone who considers my appreciation of Carlos Acosta somewhat unjustified, you must know that I ADORE Kobborg. I find his slightly restrained manner, phrasing and purity almost faint-worthy.


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Marie

26-07-00, 11:17 PM (GMT)
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14. "RE: ... talent"
In response to message #10
 
   The fact that Guillem refuses to dance with Legris is true.When she was at POB she danced with Jude,Denard,Legris,Lormeau,Hilaire etc...Her current partners were Legris and Hilaire.She now only dances with Hilaire and other younger dancers such as Le Riche.It's probably more for private ,personal reasons than professional reasons that Guillem refuses to dance with Legris.They were current partners "in an extended meaning".


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Bruce Madmin

30-07-00, 06:17 PM (GMT)
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17. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #0
 
   Thought I would just chuck this Jann Parry (Observer) quote in...

"French guests Laurent Hilaire and Nicholas Le Riche were brought in to boost the Hochhauser summer season: gorgeous though they are, Jonathan Cope is their equal, and incomparable in the Royal Ballet repertoire. He has reached an astonishing peak this year - and he has the best legs in the business."

Please don't shoot the messenger!


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eugene merrett

30-07-00, 10:59 PM (GMT)
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18. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #17
 
   I am rather partial to Ethan Stieffel amoungts the men. I love those perfectly controlled jumps and landings and his great speed.

La Riche is more passionate and Acosta is more dazzling but when it comes to cool technical ability, I prefer Steiffel to the others!!


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Susy

31-07-00, 10:07 AM (GMT)
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19. "RE: Male dancers whose technique matches Guillem's"
In response to message #18
 
   I couldn't read the review in the Standard and I haven't seen all the male dancers in the world, but this is my point of view on the subject. Regarding Guillem's technique, its characteristic is the extreme easiness with which the difficulties are overcome.
I immediately remembered what Hiromi wrote in ballet.co.uk magazine about Malakhov in Grand Pas Classique at the World Ballet Festival in Japan in August 1997. This was a special occasion where Guillem's technique was matched! But Malakhov isn't one of Guillem's partners and I won't discuss him.
I'll forget all the shorter dancers, as high barycentres require different efforts.
I'm really fond of French technique and whenever I want to capture its secrets I watch the beautiful 4-hours-long documentary "Les enfants de la danse". The lessons attended by the POB students (one can easily recognize Fallou, Dupont, Osta, Thibault, Martinez, Pech and a rather cute Nicolas Le Riche) are interspersed with demonstrations of sequences of steps, each one carried on by a different étoile excelling in it. So there is Patrick Dupond showing off his ability in pirouettes, Eric Vu An in grands sauts, as well as Elisabeth Platel (that's why her Myrtha and Dryad Queen are outstanding) and Manuel Legris for petite batterie (that's why his James is far from ordinary, eclipsing IMO all the Danes).
This long introduction served as argument in favour of my point of view regarding French male dancers who can match Guillem's technique, as Martinez or Bart. But I won't discuss them as Guillem is usually partnered by Hilaire and Le Riche. Both these two dancers have a wide range of roles and styles and the command of the stage matching Guillem's. From the strictly technical point of view, I'd like to translate something posted here in French by Catherine some days ago:
"Guillem didn't want to dance any longer with Hilaire after a Don Quixote, but for Giselle and Sleeping beauty she accepted to dance with him; in the first ballet great technical demands are missing and in the second ballet Hilaire was replacing an injured Le Riche."
This seems to narrow the analysis to Le Riche. If I consider ballets full of technical difficulties, like Etudes or Nureyev's Swan lake and Don Quixote, the power in Le Riche's dancing adds an extra thrill to his ability to cope with all the tricks in these choreographies.
But Guillem tried a new partner last year and I can't forget the beauty of four arched feet and four legs with high extensions working with a perfect unison in never ending balances. I'm talking of a male dancer who arrived on the Italian stages totally unexpected as his qualities are typical of the French school. Maybe there will be no more chances to see Guillem and Bolle dancing together again, as she seems now more interested in interpretation than in technique in her choises, but what a match!


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Kate R

02-08-00, 11:40 AM (GMT)
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21. "RE: Male dancers whose technique matches Guillem's"
In response to message #19
 
   Short of time - so a brief response.

I think that Guillem prefers Le Riche for the more "energetic" roles because a ballerina's body ages more slowly than her male conterpart. Guillem has about 10 years on le Riche whereas Hilaire is about the same age.


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Susy

02-08-00, 01:34 PM (GMT)
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22. "RE: Male dancers whose technique matches Guillem's"
In response to message #21
 
   Hilaire was born in 1962, Guillem in 1965 and Le Riche in 1972.
I think that at present technique features required by ballerinas are so hard that aging is becoming a more relevant problem also for them. Of course male dancers have the extra effort of lifting their partners. Anyway Hilaire in Paris last month was in great shape and you could never guess his age.


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Kate R

02-08-00, 08:22 PM (GMT)
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23. "RE: Male dancers whose technique matches Guillem's"
In response to message #22
 
   I also saw hin in Paris and would say he was on bettr form that he was in London.

Regardless of whose decision it is, and we have to bear in mind that Hilaire may participate in the decision making process, it has to be right that a ballerina and indeed her partner, chose the partnerships to which they are most suited. To belive that you can dance everying together is misguided.


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Bruce Madmin

02-08-00, 11:07 AM (GMT)
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20. "Le Riche Interview"
In response to message #0
 
   Just in case you missed this in the latest magazine:

http://www.ballet.co.uk/magazines/yr_00/aug00/interview_nicolas_le_riche.htm


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Catherine

03-08-00, 00:05 AM (GMT)
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24. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #0
 
   I think Talent and technic is not the same thing. And I think it's often a mistake. We can say that Le Riche impress you than Hilaire, but you can say he's a good technician, he makes Le Riche dance as Hilaire. They are only able to jump and their playing is too much, especially with Hilaire.
I find Le Riche interpretation too played, we don't feel nothing when I see him in "Jeune homme et la mort" or when I see Bridard a french first dancer it's not at all the same feeling. Bridard makes me cry, because, he plays really, he doesn't play to play.

For other point, Legris is a technical artist as Bart, as Martinez. Le Riche jumps very high, but it's not really a technical artist.
Le Riche could dance only with mediatic dancer as Guillem or Pietragalla.
Le Riche impress people by his youngness, his jump. But for me it's not at all the so great dancer people want to see in him. He's only able to jump and with his higher and higher jump, he must be injury him at the less movement. Legris, Bart or MArtinez are other kind of dancer, they have the same sense of movement, they dance. It's what they make which is dance, Le Riche makes "Circus". I feel nothing when I see him actually.
I just find him fine in the contemporary works because it's make for him, the first impression with Le Riche is "it's kind, it's like a little pet".
When you see other dancer after him you see all the difference and all the qualities he doesn't have as elegance, and especially style. It's the more important.
With his higher jump, he lost all the musicality and the dance seems to be interrupted as with Hilaire. I don't consider Le Riche or Hilaire as great technician, they are good dancer, but they don't know what style is and I think it's important for the quality of a performance. Guillem has no style too, she makes only Guillem dance, she makes all she knows to make and she never respect style of choreography, it's for that she loves to dance with Le Riche and Hilaire. She doesn't dance with Legris for personal reasons and she doesn't try to dance with Martinez or Bart because they have too style for her, and they can dance together.

And for Marie,
ce n'est pas parce que Legris mène une certaine politique que ce n'est pas le plus grand technicien de l'Opéra. Ce n'est quoi que vous en pensiez pas un businessmann et de toutes façons les danseurs qu'il prend dans son groupe ne sont pas de mauvais danseurs loin de là. S'il a pris Le Riche dans son groupe lors de sa première tournée c'est juste parce qu'il est vendeur.
For Kate R.
I think you saw Legris now and he lost too many thing which make of him a very technical dancer. He never jump high, he prefer musicality, elegance and especially Style


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Susy

03-08-00, 08:52 AM (GMT)
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25. "RE: Talent"
In response to message #24
 
   Catherine, you listed all the reasons why I love so much French dancers, they have a fantastic technique and each of them has different qualities so that you can make your choice depending on your taste. When I saw Bridard dancing Abderam last month I thought he has something of Le Riche in his way of seducing the audience at the same time as Raymonda. Maybe I need to see more of him to discover the differences in his style.
I think that this thread has a title, Talent, not matching perfectly with the sentence from the Standard, which is about technique. I agree that talent is both technique and style.
Curiously Le Riche himself in Kevin's interview said he doesn't know if he is a true prince, of course he isn't noble but this doesn't mean that you can anyway appreciate him also in these roles.
About Guillem's partners I think she's looking for someone with whom she can both move and thrill the audience, but maybe this is only my opinion.


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