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Subject: "Manon - Music" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Amy Richardson

24-05-99, 05:46 PM (GMT)
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"Manon - Music"
 
   Does anyone know whether the arrangement of the Massenet pieces for RB Manon is ever likely to be released on CD or cassette ? I understand that the Massenet estate had some objections but surely sufficient time has passed since his death for them not to be able to object ?


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  Re: Manon - Music Eugene Merrett 24-05-99 1
     Re: Manon - Music Jonathan Still 24-05-99 2
         Re: Manon - Music Bruceadmin 24-05-99 4
             Re: Manon - Music Peng Chiang 25-05-99 5
                 RE: Re: Manon - Music Bruceadmin 25-05-99 6
                     RE: RE: Re: Manon - Music Peng Chiang 31-05-99 19
                     Ballet recordings - where to find them ! gerald dowler 25-05-99 7
                         On the subject of Etudes.... jonathan still 25-05-99 9
                             RE: On the subject of Etudes.... Eugene Merrett 25-05-99 10
                             RE: RE: On the subject of Etudes.... jonathan still 26-05-99 11
                             RE: RE: RE: On the subject of Etudes.... gerald dowler 26-05-99 12
                             RE: On the subject of Etudes.... patricia meja 29-05-99 16
                             RE: RE: On the subject of Etudes.... patricia meja 29-05-99 17
                             RE: RE: RE: On the subject of Etudes.... Jonathan Still 29-05-99 18
                             RE: On the subject of Etudes.... Eugene Merrett 26-05-99 13
                             RE: On the subject of Etudes.... jonathan still 26-05-99 14
                             RE: RE: On the subject of Etudes.... Eugene Merrett 28-05-99 15
                         RE: Ballet recordings - where to find them ! Bruceadmin 25-05-99 8
         Re: Manon - Music Eugene Merrett 24-05-99 3

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Eugene Merrett

24-05-99, 05:47 PM (GMT)
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1. "Re: Manon - Music"
In response to message #0
 
   The estate definitely objected to the use of his music in the ballet.

Massenet died in 1912 so any copyright restrictions should have expired by now. I suspect that there is insufficient demand to justify a re release


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Jonathan Still

24-05-99, 07:21 PM (GMT)
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2. "Re: Manon - Music "
In response to message #1
 
   I have in front of me a boxed set of the ballet on two cassettes, recorded in 1987 by the ROH orchestra with Richard Bonynge, on Decca 414 585-4. I expect you know about this.


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Bruceadmin

24-05-99, 08:59 PM (GMT)
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4. "Re: Manon - Music "
In response to message #2
 
   You lucky thing! - I have copies of Manon on tape, but they are getting a bit stretched these days. Why the estate takes such a silly view I can't understand.


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Peng Chiang

25-05-99, 06:29 AM (GMT)
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5. "Re: Manon - Music "
In response to message #4
 
   My friend just bought a CD copy of the ROH orchestra recording this past January when we were in London from the Ballet Bookstore. There wasn't a colour CD jacket to it but it sounds great. I just love the Massenet music for the pas de deuxs!


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Bruceadmin

25-05-99, 06:38 AM (GMT)
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6. "RE: Re: Manon - Music "
In response to message #5
 
   Do you mean DanceBooks? Has anybody else seen this - it sounds just what peopel have been asking for for years (or many people anyway).


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Peng Chiang

31-05-99, 06:39 AM (GMT)
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19. "RE: RE: Re: Manon - Music "
In response to message #6
 
   bm on 5/25/99 7:43 AM said:
>>Do you mean DanceBooks? Has anybody else seen this - it sounds just what people have been asking for for years (or many people anyway). >>

Yes, I think it is DanceBooks. It's a on a little street near the Coliseum and stocks nothing but books, videos, posters etc, on dance. I believe the CD's were downstairs.

Sorry it took so long for the reply. I had just zipped off to NY to see NYCB and ABT. Ballet seasons in Canada are much too short!


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gerald dowler

25-05-99, 08:03 AM (GMT)
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7. "Ballet recordings - where to find them !"
In response to message #6
 
   The CD of Manon was relaeased here in the UK for some time - I bought it some 10 years ago. One major problem was the lack of tracking: only 3 tracks per CD, so you had to listen to great chunks or whizz through. Still, I realise how fortunate I am to have the CD in the first place.
I have seen it second-hand from time to time in the London bookshops / second-hand CD shops. For anyone desperate, Harold Moores in Great Marlborough Street could possibly locate a copy (at a price!) or otherwise it's best to keep looking at places like Cheapo Cheapo in Rupert Street which, incidentally, is where I bought my copies of a lot of those EMI Greensleeves ballet repertoire records (Monotones 1 2, as performed by the RB, Etudes etc) also, Harold Moores again where I bought Birthday Offering, Month in the Country and a three disc set of all the old London Festival ballet rep.. Gramex, behind Waterloo Staion in Lower Marsh is excellent too, and very knowledgeable. Otherwise, keep your eyes peeled; if I see a copy of the Manon I'll get it and post it here.
Happy hunting !


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jonathan still

25-05-99, 08:56 PM (GMT)
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9. "On the subject of Etudes...."
In response to message #7
 
   Cheapo Cheapo in Rupert
>Street which, incidentally, is where I
>bought my copies of a lot
>of those EMI Greensleeves ballet repertoire
>records (Monotones 1 2, as performed by
>the RB, Etudes etc

I was in HMV in Oxford street on sunday and saw a CD of Etudes, Flower Festival and Corsaire - it looked brand new. I didn't know Etudes had been rereleased. Shame I didn't have any money on me, but then my birthday's on the 8th of June.


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Eugene Merrett

25-05-99, 09:56 PM (GMT)
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10. "RE: On the subject of Etudes...."
In response to message #9
 
   Sorry but do you mean Chopin's Etudes - has anyone done a ballet to them? There are a massive number of recordings of them - Pollini's set probably being the most well known.


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jonathan still

26-05-99, 06:39 AM (GMT)
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11. "RE: RE: On the subject of Etudes...."
In response to message #10
 
   No, I mean the music to Harald Lander's ballet Etudes. The score consists of Czerny piano exercises arranged and orchestrated by Knudåge Riisager. Riisager's orchestral wit, sense of theatre and feeling for dance together with Lander's piece - which keeps on rising in energy until you think it can't go further (and then it does!) turn these somewhat trite and mechanical 19th century exercises into a tremendously warm and exciting ballet score. I suspect it's probably not quite your cup of tea though


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gerald dowler

26-05-99, 01:58 PM (GMT)
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12. "RE: RE: RE: On the subject of Etudes...."
In response to message #11
 
   Yes, the Lander Etudes ! And yes, I had totally forgotten that it was now on mid-price CD.
It is such a shame that EMI or another label haven't continued in the laudable policy of recording ballet repertoire - most remains untransferred to CD. There are exceptions, the most notable being the recent excellent recording of Ondine (entitled Undine) by Henze. For those who enjoy the forthcoming RB performances, this is one 'unusual' ballet for which you can get a recording !

There are other rarities out there - i got a vinyl of Hommage to the Queen after being totally transfixed by the wonderful music for the 'Air' pas de deux. A recording for that is now out on CD. There are trickles, but the 'old' repertoire is more difficult to get hold of.

If anyone would like a pointer or indeed ask me to have a look for something in particular while on my travels, I would be very happy to do so.


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patricia meja

29-05-99, 06:53 AM (GMT)
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16. "RE: On the subject of Etudes...."
In response to message #12
 
   >>
>>
>>Yes, the Lander Etudes ! And yes, I had totally forgotten that it was now on mid-price CD.
>>
>>It is such a shame that EMI or another label haven't continued in the laudable policy of recording ballet repertoire - most remains untransferred to CD. There are exceptions, the most notable being the recent excellent recording of Ondine (entitled Undine) by Henze. For those who enjoy the forthcoming RB performances, this is one 'unusual' ballet for which you can get a recording !
>>
>>There are other rarities out there - i got a vinyl of Hommage to the Queen after being totally transfixed by the wonderful music for the 'Air' pas de deux. A recording for that is now out on CD. There are trickles, but the 'old' repertoire is more difficult to get hold of.
>>
>>If anyone would like a pointer or indeed ask me to have a look for something in particular while on my travels, I would be very happy to do so.
>>


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patricia meja

29-05-99, 06:54 AM (GMT)
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17. "RE: RE: On the subject of Etudes...."
In response to message #16
 
   >is the etudes the old recording of the festival ballet orchestra's? it was very nice and was really on my search list for a long time. would love the details of the release so i can look for it here....
patricia


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Jonathan Still

29-05-99, 06:55 AM (GMT)
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18. "RE: RE: RE: On the subject of Etudes...."
In response to message #17
 
   >>>is the etudes the old recording of the festival ballet orchestra's? it was very nice and was really on my search list for a long time. would love the details of the release so i can look for it here....
>>
The one I saw was. You can get it from Amazon.com (if you want to find it, go to Amazon and search for Etudes and Riisager) for the amazing price of £6.27. I saw it in HMV for about £15. There is another recording with the Danish National Radio Orchestra, but like you, it's the LFB one that I want.
Here are details from Amazon:

BALLET GALA/TERENCE KERN
Composer: Vittorio Rieti, Edvard Helsted, et al.
Conductor: Terence Kern
Orchestra: London Festival Ballet Orch/estra
Emd/Seraphim - #69089 / March 12, 1996
Audio CD / ADD / Number of Discs: 2
ASIN: B000000UWA


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Eugene Merrett

26-05-99, 01:59 PM (GMT)
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13. "RE: On the subject of Etudes...."
In response to message #12
 
   Actually I think I have seen it at the ABT. It is the most visually stunnign plotless ballets I have ever seen.

But it is rather surprising that the music has been recorded! I can't remember anything about the music.

Was'nt Czerny one of Beethoven's pupils or friends and his first biographer?


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jonathan still

26-05-99, 09:47 PM (GMT)
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14. "RE: On the subject of Etudes...."
In response to message #13
 
   That is not altogether surprising. Czerny's exercises are keyboard studies which have only slightly more musical interest than Learn to Touch Type with Mavis Beacon, and for the same reasons.
But with Riisager's orchestration, a different Czerny emerges - a romantic, full of singing melodies and relentless drama, which is perfect for the ballet.

The success of the marriage between the music and the choreography lies in the humour on both sides - it's as if Poulenc had set "The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" for soprano and orchestra, or Mavis Beacon's protegés were typing "K.A.L.A.M.A.Z.O. I got a girl..." to Glenn Miller, and meaning every keystroke of it.

I doubt that the score would hold the same appeal without the ballet, but to me, that is the essence of a successful ballet score. And I don't doubt that even without noticing it, one of the reason you found it visually stunning was because the music supports and enhances the visual effects.

And yes, he was a pupil of Beethoven - and Liszt's teacher as well.


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Eugene Merrett

28-05-99, 06:30 AM (GMT)
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15. "RE: RE: On the subject of Etudes...."
In response to message #14
 
   >>I doubt that the score would hold the same appeal without the ballet, but to me, that is the essence of a successful ballet score. And I don't doubt that even without noticing it, one of the reason you found it visually stunning was because the music supports and enhances the visual effects.
>>
>>
>>

Interesting points - however I do notice the music for ballets like Apollo and Theme and Variation. The music to these ballets are far better then Czerny's Orchestrated Etudes.

Perhaps this should not happen. Maybe the music is too good that it comes almost intrusive. What do you think? A lot of people think that it impossible for any choregrapher to justice to R and J.

Perhaps the ultimate ballet music is Stavinksy Orpheus which is in my view very hard to listen to without the ballet.>>


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Bruceadmin

25-05-99, 08:05 AM (GMT)
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8. "RE: Ballet recordings - where to find them !"
In response to message #7
 
   Thanks Gerald - great stuff. I must find somewhere to stick this on the site permanently.


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Eugene Merrett

24-05-99, 08:41 PM (GMT)
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3. "Re: Manon - Music "
In response to message #2
 
   I had the same set whiched I use to listen in the car. But I really want it on CD. The Ballet shop confirmed with me that the Massenet Estate did object to the music and consequantly the CDs/cassettes were withdrawn from sale.


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