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Subject: "POB 18" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Conferences What's Happening Topic #570
Reading Topic #570
Kevin Ng

12-03-00, 00:49 AM (GMT)
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"POB 18"
 
   I start a new thread on POB following Bruce's suggestion.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: POB 18 Catherine 12-03-00 1
     RE: POB 18 Ella 12-03-00 2
         RE: POB XVIII Bruce Madmin 12-03-00 4
             RE: POB XVIII jonathan 12-03-00 6
                 RE: POB XVIII Bruce Madmin 12-03-00 7
                 RE: POB XVIII Catherine 12-03-00 8
                     RE: POB XVIII Jija 12-03-00 9
  RE: POB 18 - Le Concours - Cummentaries in English (Men at b... Catherine 12-03-00 3
  RE: POB 18 - Le Concours - Cummentaries in English (Women) Catherine 12-03-00 5
     RE: POB 18 - Le Concours - Cummentaries in English (Women) Jija 12-03-00 10
         RE: POB 18 - Next season Catherine 12-03-00 11
             RE: POB 18 - Next season Kevin Ng 13-03-00 12
                 RE: POB 18 - Next season Catherine 13-03-00 13
                     RE: POB 18 - Next season Susy 13-03-00 14
                     RE: POB 18 - Next season Jija 13-03-00 15
                         RE: POB 18 - Next season Catherine 13-03-00 16
                             RE: POB 18 - Next season Estelle 13-03-00 17
                             RE: POB 18 - Next season Eugene 13-03-00 18
                             RE: POB 18 - Next season Catherine 14-03-00 19
                             RE: POB 18 - Next season Kevin Ng 14-03-00 20

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Catherine

12-03-00, 01:49 AM (GMT)
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1. "RE: POB 18"
In response to message #0
 
   Ca me semblerait bizarre que l'Opéra ait créé un nouveau poste de première danseuse. Ceci étant cela serait vrai, je serais extrêmement heureuse, car elle a fait à mon avis le plus beau concours. Quelle émouvante Nikya !
Merci Marie pour votre avis sur Talon, je ne la vois non plus première danseuse, mais j'ai beaucoup aimé son Arepo, sa longue silhouette noire allait fort bien dans ce solo.
Quelles sont les quadrilles que vous avez aimées, MArie, Eléonore et les autres lors du concours hormis celles promues, qu'avez vous pensé entre autres de Granier, Gestin, Jourdain, etc
de même que pour toutes les autres catégories.


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Ella

12-03-00, 10:59 AM (GMT)
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2. "RE: POB 18"
In response to message #1
 
   Considering that this is an English site, why can't this topic be discussed in English. If Catherine etc. want to talk to each other, why can't they do it betwen themselves or on another site. It's very rude.


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Bruce Madmin

12-03-00, 11:25 AM (GMT)
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4. "RE: POB XVIII"
In response to message #2
 
   >Considering that this is an English site,
>why can't this topic be discussed
>in English. If Catherine etc.
>want to talk to each other,
>why can't they do it betwen
>themselves or on another site.
>It's very rude.

Er.. afraid to say that I think its rude to call those who make contributions in French 'very rude'.

While it would be nice if we all spoke the same language we obviously don't and I'd sooner see a free exchange of ideas on postings than privately. It's also clear that many visitors read the French contributions and enjoy them even if this is not always reflected in contributions to the threads.

Of course I'd love to see more English used, but it is not mandatory and I'm more than happy running as we are.


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jonathan

12-03-00, 01:10 PM (GMT)
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6. "RE: POB XVIII"
In response to message #4
 
   >>Considering that this is an English site,
>>why can't this topic be discussed
>>in English. If Catherine etc.
>>want to talk to each other,
>>why can't they do it betwen
>>themselves or on another site.
>>It's very rude.

>Er.. afraid to say that I think
>its rude to call those who
>make contributions in French 'very rude'.

I agree. When I saw the French postings, I thought it was wonderful that a)ballet.co.uk was beginning to be truly international, and b) people should feel welcome enough to post in their own language and extend the discussion to other Francophones, French or otherwise.

I share the opinion of many non-UK/US people that because of the preponderance of English on websites and computer terminology generally, the World Wide Web, far from being worldwide, is in danger of becoming an empire dominated by the English-speaking world.

To assume that every country in the world has another Bruce in it, throwing up ballet sites of the same calibre but in different languages, is to undervalue the unique achievement of ballet.co. That Catherine and others should want to use this site as forum is flattering, not rude.

The internet is an absolute God-send for anyone who wants to improve their foreign-language skills, because you can have access to millions of texts - even daily newspapers - in the target language, be helped and corrected instantly by native speakers in chat rooms and use huge online dictionaries when you don't know a word. Compared to the one out-of-date text book and non-native speaker that was the norm for language learning only a few years ago, this verges on miraculous.

For anyone interested in both the French language *and* ballet, these postings offer great opportunities to see how to express certain things in French, all of which may come in handy next time they want to talk to someone in the foyer at the POB. Or perhaps no-one bothers learning other peoples' languages anymore, I don't know.

If not, another feature of the WWW is the online-translation program, all of which are as dreadful and hopeless as each other, but they do give a rough if bizarre idea of what the original text was about. (http://www.freetranslation.com/ for example).

Vive la difference, I say.



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Bruce Madmin

12-03-00, 01:25 PM (GMT)
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7. "RE: POB XVIII"
In response to message #6
 
  
>To assume that every country in the
>world has another Bruce in it,
>throwing up ballet sites of the
>same calibre but in different languages,
>is to undervalue the unique achievement
>of ballet.co. That Catherine and others
>should want to use this site
>as forum is flattering, not rude.

Thank you (and the cheque is in the post!)


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Catherine

12-03-00, 02:47 PM (GMT)
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8. "RE: POB XVIII"
In response to message #6
 
   Thanks so lot to you to allow to speak french and english. It's difficult sometimes to arrive to say exactly what you want when it's in an other language that your original language especially when you've problem of vocabulary.
I'm happy to see too many people are interested by POB as I'm interested by other companies.


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Jija

12-03-00, 03:46 PM (GMT)
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9. "RE: POB XVIII"
In response to message #8
 
   Thank you, Bruce and Jonathan, for your "good sense" and generosity. If I had knowledge on the Internet, I would make a POB fan-site (only) in Fench. I want to tell you how much this site helps me and makes me happy. Because I've leraning French for read and hear about POB.
(Please imagine, how hard it is for a non-smart Japanese-speaker like me to learn English and French...!)
I really want much more French people to come to this site so as to get more informations, news and opinions about POB.

> It's difficult sometimes to arrive to say
>exactly what you want when it's
>in an other language that your
>original language especially when you've problem
>of vocabulary.

That's right, Catherine. So, I want you and all the other francophone-posters to say in your mother tongue without hesitaion.

Bruce, thank you again, for this wonderful site and your generosity...!


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Catherine

12-03-00, 11:04 AM (GMT)
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3. "RE: POB 18 - Le Concours - Cummentaries in English (Men at beginning)"
In response to message #0
 
   Wednesday was the annual promotion concours in POB. it began at 8.30 AM by the class of men quadrille, they have as "variation imposée" - Giselle peasants pdd, 1st variation.
The first concurrent was Bullion who made a good concours but wasn't even classed. he made as free variation Tchaikovsky pdd. After it was Alesio Carbone, it made too many progress since the last year and was promoted coryphée with a beautiful 1st variation of James - Sylphide, acte 2, version Lacotte. Cordier and Noel was too promoted it's normal Cordier is useful for all the employments of character as all the kings of Repertory. The problem it's very tall, and he couldn't dance really classical ballet it's more a contemporary dancer, he danced Rothbart variation from Swan Lake by Nureyev. Noel it's normal that he get's up. It's a small dancer but really good technician even he made a little mistake at the final of his imposed variation he was really good as James the same variation than Carbone. I forget Nicolas Paul who interpret Don Jose from Petit's Carmen. He's really good and I'm enjoy form this promotion. He must work again but I think he can make something if POB direction gives to him the rules he must dance.
In this class we can notice the young Gregory Gaillard who made a really fine concours for his first and Magnenet, even he makes too many little mistake, in his two variations he's young and showed fine things. A french critic find Houette good I don't understand why because I think he makes the bad concours of his class.
The classement is following :
1. Paul
2. Cordier
3. Carbone
4. Noel
(5). Renaud (he doesn't go up)
(6). Le Roux

After this long first part, the male coryphee was just six they must dance as "variation imposée", Don Quichotte, acte 3 by Nureyev.
Bouché made a fine concours but made a little mistake on the Etudes' variation. Moreau who must theorically go up before the concours was certainly afraid by this view and didn't make a good concours. It began very well as Don Quichotte by a superb equilibre, but at the end in the final Tour en l'air - arabesque enchained right and left he made a little mistake, his free variation was good but he missed something. He was a few lifeless. Guerri made a good concours but he's not loved by POB and wasn't promoted. Thill was absolutely bad in Don Quichotte, missed every pas. Paquette made a good concours and get up which is completely normal, he made Arlesienne final scene. Nobody understand why Hoff was promoted because, he was no si brilliant than that in Don Quichotte, his Don Jose variation was good but I think he doens't pass sujet. Guerri was better than him. I think it was normal that he finishs his career as sujet.
1. Paquette
2. Hoff
(3). Moreau
(4). Bouché
(5). Guerri
(6). Thill

The more important moment of the morning the sujet class. Three sujets was injuried through it Bélingard, Charlot and Duquenne. Bélingard and Duquenne were the best placed to become 1st dancer. Especially Duquenne, it's the kind of dancer that POB needs, Tall, elegant, musicality qualities, could dance classical, neo-classical and contemporary pieces, and good partner. I hope he could get up the next year. I don't like Bélingard he's small, very raced, he could dance just Character rules as Mercutio and contemporay pieces. At the POB the important it's to can dance classical ballets and neoclassical especially when you are 1st danseur. Because it's like an "etoile" without tittle.
Charlot dances fine but is a few lifeless
The "variation imposée" was Sleeping Beauty, acte III.
In the concours, the best was Phavorin who made a brilliant Tchaïkosky pdd. Courtain was also good but it's small and it's his problem because I think it's one of the best sujet at this moment. Thibault dance well but he's not a partner even Phavorin. And it's really important for this post.
Isoart was absolutely great as Arlesienne final scene of Federi against Saiz who has no style at all especially in Sleeping Beauty and he doesn't know what's a manege, it's not a circle with him.
Elizabé was good too but it's too old, he danced le jeune homme from the Mirage by Lifar.
No classement.
To conclude the men class, the level is high especially in Quadrille and sujet classes. I think Coryphée are a less best than the others,
I think it's normal they wait to promoted someone 1er danseur, the principal interested dancers wasn't here.


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Catherine

12-03-00, 11:42 AM (GMT)
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5. "RE: POB 18 - Le Concours - Cummentaries in English (Women)"
In response to message #0
 
   Ella I'm agree that it's an english site but we don't have the same sort of site in France. I bad speak english and it's really more easy for french to read in french but I try to make cummentaries in english.

Girls concours.
The atfernoon at 1.00 PM was the quadrille concours, the imposee variation was "Raymonda, Clemence variation 2d acte".
The first concurrent was Bance, she was also fine in Raymonda than in Neumeier Vaslaw's variation, Bellet danced after, was really good as Raymonda valse fantastique variation. She made too many progress since the last year. They were 23 to pass the concours and they are really all fine technically speaking, someone have more artistic qualities than BOulet, Cozette (even she was a few deceiving, she's one of the great "espoir" of the company, but it was her first concours and she toke a difficult variation, Sleeping Beauty 2d acte variation where too many etoile missed).
In the not-promoted dancer I remark Parcen who was absolutely superb as Don Quichotte, acte 2 variation "La vision", with equilibre and style.
Gestin who made the variation of the 6th fairy in Sleeping Beauty. Jourdain who try to dance Nutcraker Clara's variation of Acte 2 by Nureyev and it's a really hard variation. Laffon was promoted, she dance fine but I found she was not really the best dancer of this class. Granier was too good in Carmen, she has beautiful legs, and she was not classified. Mathis was fine in the Sylvia variation of Pizzicati.
1. Laffon
2. Boulet
3. Cozette
4. Bance
5. Bellet
(6). Mathis

After this long class (till two hours of variations), it was the coryphee class. They must dance Paquita, 2e variation, "slow variation".
Abbagnato it's a problem to me, she dance fine but I don't think she's really an intersting artist, she makes too many noise in Paquita variation and her Carmen was less interesting than Granier. She's loved by POB direction who give to her more rule than sujet, she never dance corps de ballet since the begining of the season it's not normal when all her colleagues made corps de ballet.
Ciaravola made a fine concours especially in Four Seasons "Autumn' variation" by Robbins. She makes a little mistake in Paquita but she's an artist and for me it's normal that she was promoted, but I don't undestand why they don't want to promote Mélanie Hurel who is a brilliant dancer, every year they classified her just after the number of free seats, and she merits really to become sujet, we saw her on stage between the other dancer. Kamionka was absolutely great in Clavigo's Marie variation, she has an artistic temperament, Cardinale was good too. Zusperreguy was absolutely perfect in Arepo variation. Legassy made a superb "Etrangère" from Clavigo but this variation coming just after Kamionka brilliant Mary. it was hard for her to pass after, I think she could be sujer.
1. Abbagnato
2. Ciaravola
(3). Hurel
(4). Kamionka
(5). Cardinale
(6). Zusperreguy

The great moment of the afternoon with the sujet class. The variation imposéee was "Raymonda", acte 1 "Variation des Pizzicati".

They were all superb artist and everywhere she will be etoile. Aubin was good as Carmen, but she is too old to hope to get up. Baey make a mistake to choose Paquita 2d variation same variation than coryphée, because it miss a few Lyrism, she dance really good. Daniel was beautiful she's an artist and her Esmeralda from Notre-Dame de Paris show us she can dance as well classical than neo-classical artist. Kudo is the best sujet in my point of view but she is a few old to hope to become etoile and POB needs girl dancer who can be etoile. All the etoile as Guerin, Arbo, Gaida must retire from the next year. She made a Nikya 2d acte variation absolutely fantastic, she is lyric, emotional qualities, technically great. She was absolutely wonderful, but how somebody says they don't create a post of première danseuse for her.
Pujol makes a superb variation of Etude with technical qualities, speed in her deboulé, fouettés. She was brilliant (she takes the same variation when she was just quadrille, she became coryphée with it). But I don't think she's really an etoile. She dance fine but she missed something.
Talon makes a superb free variation of Arepo, Romberg who was a favourite miss her concours even Moreau in the men class. She dance well but she miss of lyrism, she doesn't exprim feelings. Muret choose not the fine variation in Don Quichotte Kitri's entrée. I prefer her in lyrical pieces. Fiat was pretty in Spring variation of Four Seasons by Robbins
The classement were
1. Pujol
(2). Kudo
(3). Daniel
(4). Aubin
(5). Fiat
(6). Romberg
It's really a pity for Miteki Kudo because she's really the best and the next year she will be to old to hope to become première danseuse.
Theorically the next concours must be in December. I hope that Duquenne could become premier danseur, Moreau and Paul sujets in the dancers.
For the girls I hope Mélanie Hurel could become sujet because it's not just for her to wait and wait since too many years.

At the end I think that results are more just than other years except for Hoff and Abbagnato (she could wait), they forget someone, but they don't have too many place. Perhaps the next year.


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Jija

12-03-00, 03:58 PM (GMT)
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10. "RE: POB 18 - Le Concours - Cummentaries in English (Women)"
In response to message #5
 
   Catherine, vous savez quelque chose à propos de la saison prochaine? Je pense que normalement on annonce les programmes de la nouvelle saison en février ou en mars...?


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Catherine

12-03-00, 05:49 PM (GMT)
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11. "RE: POB 18 - Next season"
In response to message #10
 
   Théoriquement la saison prochaine devrait débuter le 7 septembre par une reprise de Raymonda, il devrait y avoir Casse-Noisette en novembre. Ce ne sera pas la Dame aux Camélias mais le Songe d'une nuit d'été de Neumeier qui sera repris l'an prochain ainsi que Roméo et juliette. Il ya une tournée prévue à Los Angeles et San Francisco avec La Bayadère et Le Parc, les donneront-ils avant je ne sais pas.
Je pense que la saison devrait bientôt être communiquée dès que je la connais je la posterai


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Kevin Ng

13-03-00, 00:22 AM (GMT)
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12. "RE: POB 18 - Next season"
In response to message #11
 
   LAST EDITED ON 13-Mar-00 AT 11:36 AM (GMT)

Je me souviens que la derniere fois que le POB dansait a New York en 1996, c'etait les memes ballets - La Bayadere et Le Parc - que la compagnie a presentes. Je n'ai vu chacun ballet qu' une fois a Paris.

Catherine, vous aimez Le Parc? J'ai vu Guerin et Hilaire dans les roles princiapaux. Quant a la Bayadere, c'etait Maurin et Belarbi.


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Catherine

13-03-00, 09:48 AM (GMT)
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13. "RE: POB 18 - Next season"
In response to message #12
 
   Je dois dire que j'adore le Parc, c'est à mes yeux un des plus beaux ballets contemporains qui existent.
Tout est magnifique dedans que ce soit la chorégraphie, la musique, les décors, les costumes. Je dois dire que par contre j'ai un penchant pour la deuxième distribution Maurin Legris, le dernier pas de deux avait quelque chose de très intime avec eux ce qui n'existait pas chez Guérin et Hilaire même si ceux-ci sont très biens dedans. Les parties avec le corps de ballet et notamment toutes les scènes avec les jardiniers sont géniales.
Je dois dire que c'est une des plus grandes réussites de l'Opéra ces dernières années au niveau création mondiale. Casanova du même Prejolcaj est intéressant mais beaucoup moins réussi surtout pour le corps de ballet qui n'a pas grand chose à exprimer.


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Susy

13-03-00, 11:08 AM (GMT)
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14. "RE: POB 18 - Next season"
In response to message #13
 
   I had the chance to see this ballet in a wonderful setting during the RomaEuropa Festival, in a true garden. The afternoon had been rainy but at sunset the sky was clear and later on a full moon appeared. The platform for the dancers was placed at a right corner from the museum of the musical instruments and there was no backcloth, so a gorgeous roman landscape (palms, ruins) was the perfect scenery for the choreography. I saw the first cast (Guerin&Hilaire) and they were able to convey deep feeling to each shadow of love relationship. An evening full of emotion and very dear to my heart!


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Jija

13-03-00, 02:39 PM (GMT)
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15. "RE: POB 18 - Next season"
In response to message #13
 
   Catherine, merci pour les informarions de la prochaine saison.
Casse-noisettes et R&J, ce sont toujours de Noureyev?

Moi aussi j'adore Le Parc.(mais je prefere absolument Guérin-Hilaire!) C'est dommage qu'il y ait pas mal de gens qui disent qu'ils aiment pas ce ballet...


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Catherine

13-03-00, 02:49 PM (GMT)
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16. "RE: POB 18 - Next season"
In response to message #15
 
   Ce sont à mon avis les ballets de Noureev, étant donné qu'il donne le songe de Neumeier, cela m'étonnerait qu'ils prennent également la version Neumeier du Casse-Noisette.
Je pense que c'est un snobisme de ne pas aimer la danse contemporaine comme cela a un côté peut-être un peu vieillot de n'apprécier que le tutu pointe. Prejolcaj a fait une magnifique chorégraphie et je ne comprends absolument pas comment on peut ne pas aimer Le Parc ce n'est pas Casanova, qui est il est vrai beaucoup plus dur d'apparence, même s'il ya des choses très bien dedans.


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Estelle

13-03-00, 03:26 PM (GMT)
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17. "RE: POB 18 - Next season"
In response to message #16
 
   A propos du "Parc": je l'ai vu l'an dernier (avec Maurin et Legris), et je dois dire que j'ai été un peu déçue. La musique, les décors, lumières et costumes, la mise en scène sont très réussis, mais j'ai trouvé que la chorégraphie était assez plate, avec un vocabulaire limité, et que l'émotion venait plus de l'interprétation des danseurs que de la chorégraphie elle-même. Ce n'est pas le fait que ce soit du contemporain qui me gêne (par exemple j'ai beaucoup aimé la "Giselle" de Mats Ek, ou dans une moindre mesure la dernière création de Kelemenis), mais le style chorégraphique utilisé. Certains passages musicaux du "Parc" avaient aussi été utilisés par Kylian dans son ballet comique "Sechs Tanze" (Six Danses), et je dois dire qu'en voyant la chorégraphie de Preljocaj sur les mêmes airs, j'avais du mal à oublier la fluidité et l'inventivité de Kylian, à mon avis bien supérieure...

Cela dit, je n'ai vu ce ballet qu'une seule fois, et il est peut-être nécessaire de le voir plus pour vraiment l'apprécier. Et je le trouve tout de même plus réussi que d'autres créations comme "Rhapsody in blue" d' Odile Duboc ou "Orison" de Pierre Darde...

About "Le Parc": I saw it last year (with Maurin and Legris), and I was a bit disappointed. The sets, costumes, lights, music and staging were very good, but I found the choreography rather flat, with a narrow vocabulary. The emotion came from the dancers' talent, not from the choreography itself. I am not against contemporary dance at all (I liked a lot works such as Mats Ek's "Giselle" or Kelemenis last new work), but I didn't like that choreographic style. Some of the musical excerpts had been already used by Jiri Kylian in his comical ballet "Six Dances", and in my opinion, Kylian's fluid and witty choreography was far more interesting that Preljocaj's.

However, I saw that ballet only once, and perhaps it requires to be seen more than once to be fully appreciated.


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Eugene

13-03-00, 09:27 PM (GMT)
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18. "RE: POB 18 - Next season"
In response to message #17
 
   The contributions in French are currently harmless. However if every European ballet fan began to start posting in their national language I think this might turn off many contributors because they would not sure that the conversation would be in their own language.

A thread could start in English and finish in Finnish via the occasional responses in Japanese and German.


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Catherine

14-03-00, 12:17 PM (GMT)
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19. "RE: POB 18 - Next season"
In response to message #18
 
   Perhaps, it's usual to speak in english on this site - it's an european site you're right Eugene - and BM understand that we can have a thread completely in french even cummentaries in english are welcome.
I'm trying to translate but it's more easy as I say many times to speak my mother's language than an other. I think I could make mistake in english and say something I don't think because I don't know perfectly Shakespeare's languade.
And too many people are ok to speak in french. Europe has not an only language, as I know, english more.
Everybody don't speak english Eugene.


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Kevin Ng

14-03-00, 02:22 PM (GMT)
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20. "RE: POB 18 - Next season"
In response to message #19
 
   Eugene, I think yours is a very unlikely scenario.


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