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Subject: "RB injuries" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Conferences What's Happening Topic #2472
Reading Topic #2472
PhilipBadmin

07-02-02, 07:06 PM (GMT)
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"RB injuries"
 
   I just noticed that tonight's Memories has been affected thus:

BEYOND BACH
Marianela Nunez replaces Alina Cojocaru
Jonathan Cope replaces Johan Kobborg

THE LEAVES ARE FADING
Alina Cojocaru replaces Tamara Rojo
Johan Kobborg replaces Inaki Urlezaga

which leads me to believe that Rojo and/or Urlezaga is injured.
A bit of a disaster as the opening night of La Bayadere with Rojo is only on Monday!
Anybody have any more details?


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: RB injuries Shirley 08-02-02 1
     RE: RB injuries alison 08-02-02 2
         RE: RB injuries Wendy Glavis 08-02-02 3
             RE: RB injuries Shirley 08-02-02 4
                 RE: RB injuries EmmaL 08-02-02 5
                     RE: RB injuries Wendy Glavis 08-02-02 6
                     RE: RB injuries Shirley 09-02-02 7
                         RE: RB injuries Michael LL 09-02-02 8
                             RE: RB injuries sylvia 09-02-02 9
                             Friday night Brendan McCarthymoderator 09-02-02 10
                             RE: Friday night Shirley 09-02-02 11
                             RE: Friday night Brendan McCarthymoderator 09-02-02 12
                             RE: Friday night Shirley 09-02-02 13
                             RE: Friday night EmmaL 09-02-02 14
                             RE: Friday night Brendan McCarthymoderator 09-02-02 15
                             RE: Friday night AEHandley 10-02-02 25
                             RE: Friday night Brendan McCarthymoderator 11-02-02 32
                         Ilya Kuznetsov Kevin Ng 09-02-02 16
                             RE: Ilya Kuznetsov Shirley 09-02-02 17
                             RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach Suzanne McCarthy 09-02-02 18
                             RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach Tomoko.A 10-02-02 19
                             RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach Brendan McCarthymoderator 10-02-02 20
                             RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach Bruce Madmin 10-02-02 21
                             RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach Shirley 10-02-02 22
                             RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach Richard Jones 10-02-02 23
                             RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach AEHandley 10-02-02 24
                             RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach Shirley 10-02-02 26
                             RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach AnnWilliams 10-02-02 27
                             RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach Richard Jones 10-02-02 28
                             RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach Bruce Madmin 10-02-02 29
                             RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach Pete 10-02-02 30
                             RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach Brendan McCarthymoderator 11-02-02 33
  Discussion continued elsewhere Bruce Madmin 11-02-02 34

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Shirley

08-02-02, 00:51 AM (GMT)
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1. "RE: RB injuries"
In response to message #0
 
   >I just noticed that tonight's Memories
>has been affected thus:
>
>BEYOND BACH
>Marianela Nunez replaces Alina Cojocaru
>Jonathan Cope replaces Johan Kobborg
>
>THE LEAVES ARE FADING
>Alina Cojocaru replaces Tamara Rojo
>Johan Kobborg replaces Inaki Urlezaga
>
>which leads me to believe that
>Rojo and/or Urlezaga is injured.
>
>A bit of a disaster as
>the opening night of La
>Bayadere with Rojo is only
>on Monday!
>Anybody have any more details?

Inaki is injured and I believe that Kuznetsov (Kirov) has been brought in to replace him in La Bayadere.



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alison

08-02-02, 01:28 PM (GMT)
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2. "RE: RB injuries"
In response to message #1
 
   LAST EDITED ON 08-02-02 AT 01:30 PM (GMT)

That's interesting. I was told that Rojo was injured, and was very worried about her first night Bayadère. Do we know how bad an injury it is, i.e. how long he's likely to be off?


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Wendy Glavis

08-02-02, 05:42 PM (GMT)
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3. "RE: RB injuries"
In response to message #2
 
   Have just heard from a reliable source that Carlos Acosta will be partnering Darcey on Tuesday night.


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Shirley

08-02-02, 06:16 PM (GMT)
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4. "RE: RB injuries"
In response to message #3
 
   LAST EDITED ON 08-02-02 AT 06:16 PM (GMT)

Inaki is injured (not sure how serious) and he is being replaced by Ricardo Cevera in Beyond Bach tonight. Marianela Nunez is also being replaced in Beyond Bach by Alina Cojacaru.


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EmmaL

08-02-02, 06:44 PM (GMT)
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5. "RE: RB injuries"
In response to message #4
 
   Old News!
Both the above cast changes are on the ROH web site. So much for Kuznetsov.
Emms


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Wendy Glavis

08-02-02, 07:01 PM (GMT)
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6. "RE: RB injuries"
In response to message #5
 
   Bravo to the ROH web site for posting the news so quickly!


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Shirley

09-02-02, 00:34 AM (GMT)
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7. "RE: RB injuries"
In response to message #5
 
   >Old News!
>Both the above cast changes are
>on the ROH web site.
>So much for Kuznetsov.
>Emms


Kuznetsov name was mentioned last night as being a possible partner. Perhaps it was becasue he spent all day at the Opera House yesterday!


I'm glad the changes have made it to the Opera House site but I look at ballet.co at least 4 or 5 times a day and find out much more news from here than the ROH site.


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Michael LL

09-02-02, 03:12 AM (GMT)
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8. "RE: RB injuries"
In response to message #7
 
   Cervera managed Darcey very well I thought, but the Air on a G string section was cut from Beyond Bach tonight. No announcement, but having seen it before, the cut was obvious, and would have left people wondering why Darcey had so little to do. I wonder if anyone else noticed. The first interval was 37 minutes long!


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sylvia

09-02-02, 03:42 AM (GMT)
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9. "RE: RB injuries"
In response to message #8
 
   I thought Cervera did a great job too, and especially so in Leaves. I think there's too much weight placed on finding tall partners for tall ballerinas in these kind of ballets - he and Darcey looked just wonderful together. And I always love seeing her dance with Jonathan Cope.

I was confused at the Air on a G string cut - it was my favourite piece. I kept waiting for it, thought maybe I'd lost my mind and missed it when the end came! Maybe with additional rehearsal time they'll include it tomorrow. Leaves looked a little shaky in some places but all 4 couples were so lovely tonight.


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Brendan McCarthymoderator

09-02-02, 06:24 AM (GMT)
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10. "Friday night"
In response to message #9
 
   LAST EDITED ON 09-02-02 AT 09:54 AM (GMT)

We were there and the cut was glaring. That sextet was the centrepiece of Beyond Bach, and there is a debate to be had over whether the ballet should be performed without it. ('artistic integrity' v 'the show must go on'). It was like missing an entire movement from a symphony. The choreographer was very insistent at a masterclass several weeks ago that the two casts were so differently proportioned that switches between them were out of the question. The sextet would have made the mismatch glaring.

There are a number of issues arising from this. I doubt a music or opera audience would have been left in ignorance of a material change in the way a piece was being performed. An explanation would have been thought necessary (many music lovers would twig something amiss straightaway). Last night a word of explanation would have been a courtesy to the choreographer, the audience, and indeed the cast.

I has seen the programme at a rehearsal minus M&A. Looking at it again, I might have been over-enthusiastic at Beyond Bach, although I still think it has real qualities. While The Fades are Leaving (can't get CC's piece out of my mind!) has some exquisite writing, that set and those costumes are ghastly - and it is way over-long. When the couples come on stage for a second time around, I couldn't help thinking 'but we've had all that'.

M+A, which I had never seen, is the real thing. Not only was Ashton a master of the academic language of dance, he really knew the human heart. The effect of the piece when Fonteyn and Nureyev gave it must have been electrifying. Even viewed through the eyes of a different time and sensibility, it is still very powerful. Ashton, one begins to appreciate properly, was quite as much a force of nature as Nureyev.

Beyond Bach and The Leaves are Fading would arguably have fared better at the hands of critics and audiences if they had been programmed differently. They are too alike: and seeing M+A with them, one begins to develop a sense of why CC left Covent Garden, went away and wrote the piece he did.


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Shirley

09-02-02, 11:08 AM (GMT)
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11. "RE: Friday night"
In response to message #10
 
   I think the cut was only glaring if you knew the piece. Most in the audience who hadn't seen it wouldn't have known.

I was amazed that Ricardo managed so well considering what little rehearsal time they had. He looked as though he was enjoying himself!

The previous night Johann Persson who was injured actually came on and did all the partnering and Ricardo did the dancing so to learn what he did in an hour or so was great!


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Brendan McCarthymoderator

09-02-02, 11:33 AM (GMT)
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12. "RE: Friday night"
In response to message #11
 
   LAST EDITED ON 09-02-02 AT 11:44 AM (GMT)

Shirley,

You're completely right. It was only glaring, if you knew the piece. But I think there is an issue here that goes to the heart of whether or not ballet is a serious art-form. If for instance, a new commission by Michael Berkeley (composer and member of the ROH board) were being performed at the Wigmore Hall, and a section had to be left out because a particular soloist wasn't well, I would expect the audience to be told. And I'm certain that Michael Berkeley would insist on it (and more likely withdraw the work altogether).

I just have this slight sense that the level of critical awareness is higher among the public that turns up to opera performances and music recitals: and that no music promoter would risk his reputation by leaving an audience in the dark.

I make no complaint about the cast last night - and yes Ricardo was very good. But the audience has rights. And the artist, the choreographer, has rights. After all he has been through in the last fortnight, Stephen Baynes deserved that the audience should know that the piece as performed yesterday was an incomplete realisation of what he intended.


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Shirley

09-02-02, 12:04 PM (GMT)
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13. "RE: Friday night"
In response to message #12
 
   You are right, Brendan, that an announcement should have been made and I heard that they were actually thinking about pulling the piece completely (not sure how accurate this information was). I'm glad, however, that they didn't as I spalshed out for a really good seat .

Perhaps this shows a need for better cover for dancers as it seems like injuries are increasing by the day. When the only two dancers who know a role are both injured it leaves a bit of a problem when one is from each cast and the option of changing casts is not viable.

I also noticed that Leanne Benjamin was also off last night so I hope her injury is not too serious.


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EmmaL

09-02-02, 01:32 PM (GMT)
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14. "RE: Friday night"
In response to message #13
 
   Whilst I agree with what has been said, one is presuming that the choreogrpaher was not informed of the change and that he could have decided that there should be no announcement. In that case the rights of the audience are somewhat diminished. Choreographers, composers, directors etc. all make cuts at times.
Emms


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Brendan McCarthymoderator

09-02-02, 02:29 PM (GMT)
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15. "RE: Friday night"
In response to message #14
 
   In reply to Emms, Stephen Baynes has spoken in a number of places (Australia and here) about that centre section and it is clearly very important to his conception of the ballet. Choreographers and composers can make cuts - but this was not a technical cut merely, it altered the characteristics of the piece rather fundamentally.

I think Shirley has a point. At the Masterclass, Stephen Baynes seemed rather unfussed about the difficulties of not being able to interchange members of the two casts. Perhaps it was not realistic to have had a third cast or more understudies, but as the body symmetries of quite a number of dancers were involved (6 members of each cast had to be similarly proportioned), any injuries were inevitably going to create a major problem.


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AEHandley

10-02-02, 03:58 PM (GMT)
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25. "RE: Friday night"
In response to message #12
 
   I was surprised when at the end of Beyond Bach I hadn't heard "air on a G string" but (after checking with my companion that I hadn't been asleep) thought no more about it. I also thought "hang on, where are all those mirror images of Darcey and Marianela that I've read about?" but assumed I wasn't concentrating hard enough...

HOWEVER, if you hadn't seen the ballet before (or hadn't read the list of music!) the cut would not have been remotely noticeable. It's an abstract ballet to a set of pieces that weren't designed to be played together, for heaven's sake! I do think, however, that the cast change slip should have explained about the cut as well. Not to do so is a bit odd, but btw if you think it doesn't happen in opera or concerts you're very VERY wrong! It does, and you usually have to read a lot of small print to discover it! However, they aren't often glaring cuts. The operatic canon is far too well known for that to be possible. To pick up on someone else's thread, though, if the opera were a new one by Michael Berkeley, never before seen in the UK, I reckon they could get away with it just as easily...


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Brendan McCarthymoderator

11-02-02, 06:06 AM (GMT)
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32. "RE: Friday night"
In response to message #25
 
   Surely professionalism is about attending to the small things that you think no-one will notice. Huw Wheldon, one of the BBC's greatest figures, once said that producers had a duty to be true to their material, to their audiences and to themselves. The same holds for practitioners throughout the arts. "Getting away with it" has no place in any professional's approach to what s/he does.

The other thing is that at the Masterclass, the choreographer majored on this part of the ballet. He made it extremely clear that it was central to its architecture. I would be astonished to visit an arts gallery and find that a triptych had become a diptych without any word of explanation, or - as I've said already - to find an entire movement dropped from a symphony.

The more I think about this whole business, the more shocked I am, both at what it implies for the seriousness of ballet as an art-form, and for what it says about how dance audiences are perceived.


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Kevin Ng

09-02-02, 02:43 PM (GMT)
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16. "Ilya Kuznetsov"
In response to message #7
 
   LAST EDITED ON 09-02-02 AT 03:00 PM (GMT)

>Kuznetsov name was mentioned last night
>as being a possible partner.
>Perhaps it was becasue he
>spent all day at the
>Opera House yesterday!

Thanks for your news, Shirley. So this means that Ilya Kuznetsov won't dance with the Kirov in Washington next week.


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Shirley

09-02-02, 04:17 PM (GMT)
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17. "RE: Ilya Kuznetsov"
In response to message #16
 
   >Thanks for your news, Shirley.
>So this means that Ilya
>Kuznetsov won't dance with the
>Kirov in Washington next week.
>
I think Kuznetsov was only at the Opera House for the day (he did class with the company). I have no idea if he is scheduled to be in Washington next week with the rest of the company.


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Suzanne McCarthy

09-02-02, 05:40 PM (GMT)
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18. "RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach"
In response to message #17
 
   I have been reading the exchanges on the subject of the incomplete presentation of Beyond Bach at the ROH performance yesterday evening. I also attended the performance, and was surprised to find that one section had been cut without notification.

I believe that this raises a number of very significant issues as follows:

i) does it say something about the ROH's view of its dance audience? Does the ROH feel that the audiences it gets for its ballets are either so uninformed that they will not notice the difference between a complete performance and one that has shed some of its essential components? Or is it the case that the House believes that the audience, even if aware that the piece being performed has been truncated or "pinched and pulled" in various ways, won't very much care? That they will see some "pretty footwork" and that is sufficent enough to satisfy them on a night out? That the dancing is secondary to the experience of an evening at the ROH?

ii) does such an abridgement of a work bring into disrepute the ROH's integrity? What we saw last night was not Beyond Bach, but some relation to it. I think everyone in the audience was entitled to know that fact so that they could judge the work performed on that basis. If the ROH can tell us that dancers have been replaced, then it can also tell us that a section of the work must consequently be removed. I can't see how anyone would blame them for doing that. Now I may start to have a little niggle whenever I see new work performed at the ROH as to whether or not what I am seeing is the complete work or an abridged version and they haven't done me the courtesy of telling me.

iii) could it be that the ROH is a little worried that, by letting its audience know of the deletion to the advertised programme, this might raise requests for some compensation as those attending were not seeing the performance for which many of them had no doubt paid a good deal of money?

My firm view is that the ROH should have had the courage to make the announcement instead of keeping this masked in secrecy and hoping no one would notice and speak out about it. Yes, I accept that changes to casts and programmes have to be made, sometimes at very short notice. That is a fact of life because dancers are prone to injury. What I dislike is the way the ROH chose to handle this.


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Tomoko.A

10-02-02, 08:01 AM (GMT)
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19. "RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach"
In response to message #18
 
   I agree with Suzanne. The audience has the right to know as they pay for their tickets. I was there last night and that pdd was cut again. There was an announcement about the death of Princess Margaret by Stretton before the performance, but not about the omission. It was my third view and the missing part was obvious. Air on G is so well known and if you've seen this ballet before, you will notice what's happened. I felt cheated. I guess being his ex boss,Stretton had a big say over Baynes.


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Brendan McCarthymoderator

10-02-02, 08:10 AM (GMT)
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20. "RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach"
In response to message #19
 
   LAST EDITED ON 10-02-02 AT 08:11 AM (GMT)

I don't want to be tiresome about this because I've said more than enough, but the issues this raises are absolutely fundamental, to wit:

1. The ROH's corporate ethics
2. The degree of seriousness with which they regard ballet as an art form.


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Bruce Madmin

10-02-02, 09:01 AM (GMT)
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21. "RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach"
In response to message #20
 
   I don't question, at all, the RB's commitment to ballet as an art form. In the past people have questioned the ROHs commitment to the ballet side, but I don't think that's anything to do with this issue.

Fascinating thread. Apart form the specifics of this case (where the strength of feeling seems clear) there is a general debate I think about what can be changed, and not, before the audience needs to be involved/told. Where is the boundary?


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Shirley

10-02-02, 10:15 AM (GMT)
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22. "RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach"
In response to message #19
 
   >There was an
>announcement about the death of
>Princess Margaret by Stretton before
>the performance, but not about
>the omission.

I don't know about you but I thought Stretton's speach was terrible. He had to read part of it from a sheet of paper and it lasted all of 20 secs. I would have thought Princess Margaret deserved more than that from a company that has meant so much to her and she has been so involved in.


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Richard Jones

10-02-02, 02:55 PM (GMT)
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23. "RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach"
In response to message #22
 
   LAST EDITED ON 10-02-02 AT 02:57 PM (GMT)

First of all a message in support of Suzanne and Brendan. I would like to think that this thread is read by the ROH/RB management; I hope so, though recent evidence makes one wonder to what extent those who run the show at the ROH are aware of audience feelings such as those expressed here.

Secondly it makes me very sad to read Shirley's post concerning Ross Stretton's "speech" after the death of Princess Margaret. Is that the best he can do? It has been announced that Buckingham Palace has invited donations from the public in memory of Princess Margaret to just three institutions, of which the RB is one (the others being the Girl Guides and the NSPCC). That is a measure of the affection she held for the Royal Ballet. Does Ross Stretton realise this? Can he cope adequately with the PR side of his high profile job?


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AEHandley

10-02-02, 03:51 PM (GMT)
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24. "RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach"
In response to message #22
 
   I can't really agree with you there, Shirley. I was wondering as I travelled up who would say anything, and thinking if Sir Tone were still there it would be very easy, because he had known her for many years (cf his few words about her at his last performance as director) but Ross Stretton couldn't really say much without it sounding false. I was impressed that he came out in person and I felt that he said as much as he could, personally. Perhaps it would have been better, though, if someone like David Drew (what ARE they going to do when he retires?) had made the announcement.


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Shirley

10-02-02, 04:21 PM (GMT)
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26. "RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach"
In response to message #24
 
   I really do feel that considering that the RB meant so much to Princess Margaret, and as Richard has pointed out that it is one of 3 organisations that the public are being invited to donate to, that more should have been said.

If Ross Stretton wasn't able to say something worthwhile then someone else should have made the speech and it is a poor show (in my opinion) that the once again the management have got it all wrong!


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AnnWilliams

10-02-02, 05:05 PM (GMT)
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27. "RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach"
In response to message #26
 
   I feel Anthony Russell-Roberts should have been the one to speak last night, but I suppose he may have been abroad. I do agree with Anneliese that as Ross Stretton had no personal knowledge of Princess Margaret it must have been very difficult for him to say anything satisfactory, and that what he did say may have been the best he could manage under the circumstances. A great pity, because whatever one thought personally of Princess Margaret, her devotion to the Royal Ballet was never in question - Dowell said in a speech he made a couple of years ago that it was 'touching'.


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Richard Jones

10-02-02, 05:32 PM (GMT)
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28. "RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach"
In response to message #27
 
   as Ross Stretton
>had no personal knowledge of
>Princess Margaret it must have
>been very difficult for him
>to say anything satisfactory, and
>that what he did say
>may have been the best
>he could manage under the
>circumstances. A great
>pity, because whatever one thought
>personally of Princess Margaret, her
>devotion to the Royal Ballet
>was never in question -

I'm sure that all will agree with the last sentence. But, as Shirley has pointed out, the ROH management has got it wrong again. Their capacity for self-destruction never ceases to amaze.
It's not as if the obituaries printed in the press this weekend will have been hastily scribbled overnight; obituaries for those in the public eye are ready at a moment's notice, and kept up to date. It was well known that Princess Margaret was in very poor health; a generous tribute to her support of the ballet by the Artistic Director on behalf of the company should not have caught the management napping. It doesn't matter that Ross Stretton did not have much personal contact with Princess Margaret. As Artistic Director he represents the company on such occasions, and it is her support of the company, not the AD, that is being acknowledged. If he needs briefing to do the job, so be it.

I hope the management will learn from this experience.


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Bruce Madmin

10-02-02, 08:17 PM (GMT)
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29. "RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach"
In response to message #28
 
  
I wasn't there to hear what Ross Stretton said but I feel for anybody who has to come out front and 'perform' at such a time - especially when you don't really know the person and the history and are relatively new in the job. However that he came out was good - anything else, and anybody else, and the talk about RB not being bothered would be far worse.

I remember Michel Kaiser, somebody incredibly skilled with words, being accused of not coming out front when Covent Garden was having big problems in the newly reopened house - endless intervals etc

Stretton did what he had to and like we all do learned from the experience I'm sure. Perhaps a little better respect might have been shown - hard to say - but ultimately I'm sure Margaret would rather have had RB artistic directors concentrating their energies on the company and great shows rather then rehearsing speeches of remembrance.


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Pete

10-02-02, 10:19 PM (GMT)
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30. "RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach"
In response to message #29
 
   LAST EDITED ON 10-02-02 AT 10:39 PM (GMT)

I have to agree with Richard that as Director of the Royal Ballet, Ross Stretton was the most suitable person to offer a message of condolence in this instance. Princess Margaret gave over half a century of dedication in support of the Sadler's Wells/Royal Ballet and as the Director of the company, Mr Stretton is the most appropriate person to give a dedication to the President of the company.

No-one should have expected a deeply personal obituary from him as this would have sounded crass, but a little bit more than a seemingly hastily prepared 'back of a cigarette packet' tribute should have been fielded. As Richard correctly pointed out, she had sadly been ill for some time.

Was a minute's silence observed by the way?


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Brendan McCarthymoderator

11-02-02, 06:41 AM (GMT)
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33. "RE: Cuts to Beyond Bach"
In response to message #30
 
   LAST EDITED ON 11-02-02 AT 07:40 AM (GMT)

In reference to Emma's point further back on the thread (14th message in), I got in touch with Michelle Potter, the dance curator of the National Library of Australia. Several years ago she wrote a piece for the Canberra Times about a ballet by Stephen Baynes called 1914. It was based on a novel by the Australian writer David Malouf.

It was to have been shown in Canberra after a run in Sydney. The stage of the Sydney Opera House is not huge, and the Australian Ballet has problems with it. However the stage of the Canberra Theatre is even smaller. Stephen Baynes was unhappy at the way 1914 had looked in Sydney. It too had a set by Andrew Carter, who designed Beyond Bach. Many elements of 1914 were dependent on the look of that set and Stephen Baynes was adamant that he would not compromise.

Although the Canberra programme had been advertised, he insisted on grounds of artistic integrity that 1914 would not be given there, embarrassment to the Australian Ballet notwithstanding. So it beggars belief that he could have agreed to the cuts made to Beyond Bach at the Opera House on Friday and Saturday. Or, if he did agree, that he was happy that the audience not be told.

The bottom line is this: how can we be sure in future, when the RB gives a new and unfamiliar work, that what is being performed is what the choreographer intended. There is a huge credibility issue here.


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Bruce Madmin

11-02-02, 08:03 AM (GMT)
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34. "Discussion continued elsewhere"
In response to message #0
 
   This thread has got very long, diverse, unwieldy etc...

for continued discussion on the Beyond Bach cuts go here:
http://www.danze.co.uk/dcforum/happening/2475.html

For continued discusion on Princess Maraget, speeches etc go here:
http://www.danze.co.uk/dcforum/happening/2474.html

If there is more to be said re injuries, best to start a new and specific thread I think

Thanks


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