HomeMagazineListingsUpdateLinksContexts

 


 Ballet.co Postings Pages

 Some Special Threads:
  GPDTalk about George Piper Dances ! NEW !
  NBTTalk about Northern Ballet Theatre
  SBTalk about Scottish Ballet
  ENBTalk about English National Ballet
  BRBTalk about Birmingham Royal Ballet
  TodaysLinks - worldwide daily dance links
  Ballet.co GetTogethers - meetings and drinks...

  Help on New Postings


Subject: " ROH: American's 10m gift buys name on building?" Archived thread - Read only
 
  Previous Topic | Next Topic
Printer-friendly copy     Email this topic to a friend    
Conferences What's Happening Topic #226
Reading Topic #226
cf

13-08-99, 04:04 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail cf Click to send private message to cf Click to add this user to your buddy list  
" ROH: American's 10m gift buys name on building?"
 
   I noticed this by Independent on 5/8 on Yahoo Internet News, has anybody else seen it? Any comments?

'THE ROYAL Opera House is planning to allow an American donor to have his name emblazoned on the front of the building in return for a 10m gift. ........Devised by the ROH's new American chief executive, Michael Kaiser, the plan would allow the donor's name to precede that of the Floral Hall, which is the public foyer and showpiece of the ROH development.'


  Printer-friendly page | Top

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  `Jeffrey Archer Victoria and Albert Museum' or a `Richard Br... cf 13-08-99 1
     RE: `Jeffrey Archer Victoria and Albert Museum' or a `Richar... jonathan 13-08-99 2
         RE: `Jeffrey Archer Victoria and Albert Museum' or a `Richar... Francis Timlin 13-08-99 3
             RE: `Jeffrey Archer Victoria and Albert Museum' or a `Richar... Bruce Madmin 13-08-99 6
     RE: `Jeffrey Archer Victoria and Albert Museum' or a `Richar... Bruce Madmin 13-08-99 4
         RE: `J AVA Museum' or a `BRA Hall'. jonathan 13-08-99 5
             RE: `J AVA Museum' or a `BRA Hall'. Francis Timlin 13-08-99 7
                 RE: `J AVA Museum' or a `BRA Hall'. Bruce Madmin 13-08-99 8
                     RE: `J AVA Museum' or a `BRA Hall'. cf 16-08-99 9
                         RE: `J AVA Museum' or a `BRA Hall'. Stephanie 16-08-99 10
                             RE: `J AVA Museum' or a `BRA Hall'. Alexandra 16-08-99 11
                             RE: Flora(l) Hall? Bruce Madmin 16-08-99 12
                             RE: Flora(l) Hall? Alexandra 17-08-99 13
     RE: `Jeffrey Archer Victoria and Albert Museum' or a `Richar... felursus 21-08-99 14

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
cf

13-08-99, 04:11 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail cf Click to send private message to cf Click to add this user to your buddy list  
1. "`Jeffrey Archer Victoria and Albert Museum' or a `Richard Branson Royal Albert Hall'."
In response to message #0
 
   more from that Independent article

Promoter Raymond Gubbay,- "This sounds like a rather tacky American idea," he said. "It's not very nice to see a state- run company doing this. Great national institutions must have their own integrity. I wouldn't want to see a `Jeffrey Archer Victoria and Albert Museum' or a `Richard Branson Royal Albert Hall'.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
jonathan

13-08-99, 06:39 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail jonathan Click to send private message to jonathan Click to add this user to your buddy list  
2. "RE: `Jeffrey Archer Victoria and Albert Museum' or a `Richard Branson Royal Albert Hall'."
In response to message #1
 
   If you consider who might have 10m to spare on a bit of brass plate, there's nothing to say it might not become The McOpera House or Microsoft Opera for Widows


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Francis Timlin

13-08-99, 07:51 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Francis%20Timlin Click to send private message to Francis%20Timlin Click to add this user to your buddy list  
3. "RE: `Jeffrey Archer Victoria and Albert Museum' or a `Richard Branson Royal Albert Hall'."
In response to message #2
 
   From a tacky American perspective, this furor is all very amusing. "Naming opportunities" for new facilities construction or renovation have been very much the obvious choice for Executive Directors and Directors of Development on this side of the pond for quite some time. Avery Fisher Hall (NY Philharmonic), the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion (LA Philharmonic), Davies Symphony Hall (SF Symphony), Benaroya Hall (Seattle Symphony) are all examples of halls named after prominent donors within the past 30 years. It seems quite apparent that Mr. Kaiser is expected to bring in some tacky American ideas in tandem with some tacky American cash.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Bruce Madmin

13-08-99, 08:47 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Bruce%20M Click to send private message to Bruce%20M Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
6. "RE: `Jeffrey Archer Victoria and Albert Museum' or a `Richard Branson Royal Albert Hall'."
In response to message #3
 
   >From a tacky American perspective, this furor
>is all very amusing. "Naming
>opportunities" for new facilities construction or
>renovation have been very much the
>obvious choice for Executive Directors and
>Directors of Development on this side
>of the pond for quite some
>time. Avery Fisher Hall (NY
>Philharmonic), the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion (LA
>Philharmonic), Davies Symphony Hall (SF Symphony),
>Benaroya Hall (Seattle Symphony) are all
>examples of halls named after prominent
>donors within the past 30 years.
> It seems quite apparent that
>Mr. Kaiser is expected to bring
>in some tacky American ideas in
>tandem with some tacky American cash.
>

I don't know but perhaps all the building you mention were 100% financed by their 'names'. I don't object to that particularly and its certainly happened over here as well. Also such deals are usually upfront - here is the money you need, now go build the building. Not the case here it seems.

The last time money was mentioned by the ROH it was to say that everything was fine and dandy. By that one assumed that the money was availble to fund all the new works, without having to go 'cap in hand' to anybody.

For the future I think the government should impose a rule that if it pays the most to support an organisation, or its building, than said organisation can't change associated names without some financial recompense to taxpayers.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Bruce Madmin

13-08-99, 08:30 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Bruce%20M Click to send private message to Bruce%20M Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
4. "RE: `Jeffrey Archer Victoria and Albert Museum' or a `Richard Branson Royal Albert Hall'."
In response to message #1
 
   I sometimes think the place ought to be called The Taxpayers and Lottery Players Royal Opera House, just to make it clear who provides the most money. If the story is true it's amazing that for 10m somebody can get their name up in lights for a few decades while the taxpayers who fund much more than that, year in and year out, get scarcely a mention (other than a little "supported by the Arts Council" logo placed here and there).

I understand why productions are sponsored. I understand why galas are sponsored. But naming a building after somebody, or an organisation, when they have not paid all the costs, or even the majority of the costs, seems unjust to all the others.

Whatever happened to giving because it was a good and decent thing to do, unconnected with self aggrandizement?


  Printer-friendly page | Top
jonathan

13-08-99, 08:46 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail jonathan Click to send private message to jonathan Click to add this user to your buddy list  
5. "RE: `J AVA Museum' or a `BRA Hall'."
In response to message #4
 
   >Whatever happened to giving because it was
>a good and decent thing to
>do, unconnected with self aggrandizement?

I expect the Americans bought it.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Francis Timlin

13-08-99, 08:55 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Francis%20Timlin Click to send private message to Francis%20Timlin Click to add this user to your buddy list  
7. "RE: `J AVA Museum' or a `BRA Hall'."
In response to message #5
 
   Perhaps of greater consequence will be the disposition of the ten million pound donation. Does the Covent Garden project still have unmet capital costs? Does the ROH operating budget have a deficit? Or will it be used to establish or add to an existing endowment for the longterm benefit of the organization?


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Bruce Madmin

13-08-99, 09:51 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Bruce%20M Click to send private message to Bruce%20M Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
8. "RE: `J AVA Museum' or a `BRA Hall'."
In response to message #7
 
   >Perhaps of greater consequence will be the
>disposition of the ten million pound
>donation. Does the Covent Garden
>project still have unmet capital costs?
> Does the ROH operating budget
>have a deficit? Or will
>it be used to establish or
>add to an existing endowment for
>the longterm benefit of the organization?
>

I believe its more likely to be the latter than the former, though doubtless the accountants can make it look whatever way is thought best!

The fact remains that securing a name in lights for decades - I assume that would be the case in naming a building - for 10M is not so much and considerably less than the 70m put in by the lottery (ie ordinary people) who get no such benefit. And then there is the government Arts Council grant to the ROH - 16M this year and 20m next. And I think the government, many years ago, bought the land needed for the ROH to expand.

If anybody should have their names up in lights it's taxpayers. That they (we!) did the decent thing and did not inflict The Taxpayers Royal Opera House on teh place was not to leave the option open for others to achieve on the cheap.

Why should taxpayers be treated differently to other benefactors?


  Printer-friendly page | Top
cf

16-08-99, 08:57 AM (GMT)
Click to EMail cf Click to send private message to cf Click to add this user to your buddy list  
9. "RE: `J AVA Museum' or a `BRA Hall'."
In response to message #8
 
   I sense a mini-poll in this one.....
Which benefactor's name would you least like to see adorning an arts venue?

or perhaps not a multiple choice question but rather are you in agreement with this practice or not?


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Stephanie

16-08-99, 03:08 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Stephanie Click to send private message to Stephanie Click to add this user to your buddy list  
10. "RE: `J AVA Museum' or a `BRA Hall'."
In response to message #9
 
   We would all be very damning if yet another CE failed to keep the ROH afloat and producing new work. At the end of the the day WHAT DOES IT MATTER what anything is called if it means that our beloved venue, companies are kept going and we have the opportunity to see both the productions we love and exciting new work. Art NEEDS injections of cash to keep it living/breathing/growing etc. I say well done and I would be perfectly happy to have a McFloral Hall - better than not having one at all.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Alexandra

16-08-99, 04:01 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Alexandra Click to send private message to Alexandra Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
11. "RE: `J AVA Museum' or a `BRA Hall'."
In response to message #10
 
   LAST EDITED ON 16-Aug-99 AT 04:02 PM (GMT)

This is one (of many) tacky American customs I loathe -- and I love Bruce's comment about what happened to people giving because it's the right thing to do. I remember 20 years ago here, when the tax deduction was changed so that you could deduct money donated to charity, Senator Harry Byrd of Virginia (a very Old Guard conservative) gave a passionate speech against it, saying just that, that people with money SHOULD give it to charity and that it would be a corrupting influence to place a tax incentive on the practice. Dear, old-fashioned Harry. Everyone laughed at him, of course, because charitable giving was so ingrained into the generous American character that this could never happen.

I also think there is a distinction between a Royal Opera House (It's not Queen Elizabeth's Opera House) and a private building. Maybe this will teach them not to hire an American in the future. (Do you think Mr. Kaiser whispered into the ear of Mr. Watchman about dumping the RAD collection discussed elsewhere, or is this just a lucky coincidence?)

We have a lot of sporting events sponsored by corporations. The NutraSweet Professional Skating Championships, etc. And I'm sure everyone knows that race car drivers and some other athletes are forced to wear their sponsors commercials on every visible article of clothing. I fully expect to see, in my lifetime, "Coca-Cola's The Sleeping Beauty," with Aurora being given little red cans instead of red roses. I posted this on Ballet Talk a few months ago and someone thought it was a terrific idea.

By the way, Bruce, I love your mini-poll for this week. If you'd take out "postmodern music or choreography" I'd vote for "all of the above."

Alexandra


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Bruce Madmin

16-08-99, 10:01 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Bruce%20M Click to send private message to Bruce%20M Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
12. "RE: Flora(l) Hall?"
In response to message #11
 
   Gulp...

Stephanie; I'm not actually against a building being named after somebody or some organisation that paid the costs of creating it. I perhaps think it's naff, but I'm not against it. But what I want is a sensibly flat playing field that does not diminish or take advantage of the gifts of others or what the public has contributed (and they have contributed the lions share in this case). However in my heart of hearts I still wish people just gave because it was right - which is what the public have really been doing of course.

Alexandra... I hate to say this, but I think your fellow countryman - Michael Kaiser - has been doing a splendid job over here! After all the troubles he has an incredibly refreshing and upbeat attitude and i have not come across anybody who has met him and has a bad word to say. Nobody - period. Perhaps he kicks puppies(!) but if he does, nobody has herd the yelps! It is indeed amazing that the debate has now moved on to the naming of a part of the ROH and is not about the latest loss or cock-up.

Interesting that you raise the Coca-Cola Sleeping Beauty. Our 1998 April fool was about the renaming of the RB signature piece as "The Sleeping Lager Queen" - Fosters (or was it Labatt's?) having agreed to sponsor the RB for the next 5 years...


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Alexandra

17-08-99, 01:37 AM (GMT)
Click to EMail Alexandra Click to send private message to Alexandra Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
13. "RE: Flora(l) Hall?"
In response to message #12
 
   Oh, Bruce, please be careful with your April Fool's thingies. They may take them seriously. Now when we see the Apotheosis in the RB's next production of Sleeping Beauty, with Lilac hoisting a foamy brew and the fairies clad in very frothy tutus, we'll know who to blame!

Glad that M. Kaiser is kicking puppies quietly, if at all. He was said to do a very good job in New York of fund raising, at least, and having the courage to say, "We're not going to tour until we get the books balanced. Sorry."

Alexandra


  Printer-friendly page | Top
felursus

21-08-99, 05:05 AM (GMT)
Click to EMail felursus Click to send private message to felursus Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
14. "RE: `Jeffrey Archer Victoria and Albert Museum' or a `Richard Branson Royal Albert Hall'."
In response to message #1
 
   I had always hoped Dear Old Britain would be safe from us tacky Americans and our strange ideas of self-promotion. I still refer to Avery Fisher Hall as "Philharmonic Hall" (and no, Avery Fisher gave ALOT of money, but the hall was already built and in use before the name was changed). The Met solved this problem by having marble walls with the large cash donors' names inscribed, and then there are the sponsored seats: in some areas the backs of the seats have plaques which cite a donor's name. The programmes also list people who give large amounts of cash - and you can even see how much! Of course there are some people of taste: someone gave money so that all the drinking fountains are "dedicated to the memory of Ezio Pinza." One wonders with all this nameing theatres and concert halls after people if, say in 50 years, the building needs a large influx of cash for repairs and modernization, and someone gives a huge amount of cash, does that mean the building gets renamed? Or do these donors have an "in perpetuity" clause so their names can't be erased??? Hmmmm ---
Karen


  Printer-friendly page | Top

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

 
Questions or problems regarding this bulletin board should be directed to Bruce Marriott