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Subject: "West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Cathryn

29-10-01, 11:32 AM (GMT)
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"West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
 
   Having just started to go out with a rather nice young man, we've struck a deal. I shall go to the football if he comes to the ballet!! So I'm off to Crystal Palace this week (!) and I'm looking at what's around to take him to.

What would people recommend as a great introductory ballet??

- Don Q
- Onegin
- Nutcracker
- ENB Nutcracker with Barbie branding (very excited about that)
- ENB Cinderella

Any thoughts gratefully received.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker pmeja 29-10-01 1
     RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Jim 29-10-01 2
         RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Paul A 29-10-01 3
  RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker fiore 29-10-01 4
     RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Robert 29-10-01 5
         RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker jhanner 30-10-01 6
  RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Pete G 30-10-01 7
  RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Viviane 30-10-01 8
     RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Anneliese 30-10-01 9
         RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker emma 30-10-01 10
             RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Ann Williams 30-10-01 11
                 RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Jim 30-10-01 12
                     RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Caroline Clayton 30-10-01 13
                         RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Anneliese 31-10-01 16
                     RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Ann Welsh 30-10-01 14
                         RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Robert 31-10-01 15
                             RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Anneliese 31-10-01 17
                             RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Ann Williams 31-10-01 18
                             RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Anneliese 02-11-01 19
                             RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Jim 02-11-01 20
                             RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Paul A 02-11-01 21
                             RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker jhanner 02-11-01 22
                             RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Anneliese 04-11-01 24
  RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker EmmaL 03-11-01 23
     RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Anneliese 04-11-01 25
         RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker Liz P 04-11-01 26

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pmeja

29-10-01, 12:34 PM (GMT)
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1. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #0
 
   i should think don q if the elements of comedy are intact as they seem to appeal and one need only do a little bit of plot-explaining.


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Jim

29-10-01, 01:57 PM (GMT)
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2. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #1
 
   Oh, you poor thing Cathryn! But I suppose someone has to support the Baggies! They are 11th in the table at the moment and Crystal Palace are second, so after an away game your bf might not be in a very good mood!

I would suggest something really athletic and macho - Spartacus maybe? Or AMP Swan Lake even. Pity they're not on at the moment, but Onegin has got a good plot to it and some stirring music.


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Paul A

29-10-01, 02:07 PM (GMT)
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3. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #2
 
   Onegin

or the current BRB triple bill.


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fiore

29-10-01, 05:13 PM (GMT)
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4. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #0
 
   So glad to see I am not the only one who resorts to this in order to show my potentials the delights of ballet!
So far I have seen Arsenal some 3 times.....oh the pain!! lol

Anyway *I* took my person to see 'the nutcracker'. It was the ENB production, liquorice allsorts and all In my opinion however,go for the RB - Don Q especially as the production seems to be getting better every time it is performed!


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Robert

29-10-01, 05:22 PM (GMT)
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5. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #4
 
   Michael Clark was on at Sadlers Wells last week, I do not know where they are now, but I would have thought it would have been the sort of ballet for a football fan.


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jhanner

30-10-01, 01:23 PM (GMT)
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6. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #5
 
   I'm sure I'm not alone in this but I enjoy ballet and am a season ticket holder at Charlton (a more inconsistent form of pleasure especially the way they're doing at the moment).

I think your first ballet depends on what you like -music (Romeo & Juliet, Swan lake) , story (Manon) etc

Any of those suggested would probably do the trick


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Pete G

30-10-01, 01:48 PM (GMT)
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7. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #0
 
   Cathryn,

At last. A topic I know something about! I support my local football team home and away and I also became hooked on ballet about ten years ago.

My suggestion would be to choose something with a decent narrative and where the men act as real(ish) characters. Manon, R&J or Mayerling would be ideal if they were around at the moment. Alternatively, something like Herman Schmerman can get the pulse going.

I'd avoid anything where the story peters out and turns into a series of divertissements. I'd especially avoid anything where the men are all princes and the women are fairies or ethereal beings. This has been parodied so far and wide on TV, from Morecambe and Wise through to French and Saunders that it's easier to see the parody rather than appreciate the actual performance when one sees it for the first time.

Don't forget that first impressions count. Better to wait to see the best than to choose the first company that comes to town.

Good luck. Wrap up warm if you're going to go to games during the winter!


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Viviane

30-10-01, 03:07 PM (GMT)
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8. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #0
 
   Cathryn,
I wouldn't worry much about it.
Although, indeed a clear plot makes a whole difference for 'the first time'.
But...I'm sure your friend can't guarantee the results of the football-match either !


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Anneliese

30-10-01, 05:08 PM (GMT)
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9. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #8
 
   My husband doesn't like football, but his first requirement for a trip to the ballet is really good music (swan lake, romeo & juliet, giselle (just) nutcracker (just)).

Then he wants to sit up close so he isn't distracted and gets really involved in the performance.

Finally, a real plot not just a lot of meaningless twirling.

HTH!


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emma

30-10-01, 05:30 PM (GMT)
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10. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #9
 
   My footy loving man enjoyed Don Q at the weekend!
He liked the comedy aspect and the costumes.
It was his second trip to the ballet and he's offered to take me again for my birthday....


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Ann Williams

30-10-01, 09:12 PM (GMT)
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11. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #10
 
   Pete G - Absolutely spot-on! The last thing you would want to take a first-time (and perhaps reluctant) male balletgoer to see would be something wifty-wafty like 'Les Sylphides'. Much better to take him to almost any Forsyth ballet - 'In the Middle' for instance, or any of the McMillan ballets you mention. Twyla Tharp's work is exiliarating too, though its not often around.

BTW, I don't mean to be dismissive of 'Les Sylphides' - I love it, it's just not for a first-time balletgoer.


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Jim

30-10-01, 09:43 PM (GMT)
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12. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #11
 
   >The last thing you would want
>to take a first-time (and
>perhaps reluctant) male balletgoer to
>see would be something wifty-wafty
>like 'Les Sylphides'.

I protest! Les Sylphides was the very first ballet I ever saw live (by Ballet Rambert in the Cambridge Arts Theatre one Guy Fawkes night long ago) and I was hooked for life! (I was also tight prop in the school 1st 15!). Yes, take him to see Les Sylphides and take him by the hand to another world....


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Caroline Clayton

30-10-01, 10:39 PM (GMT)
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13. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #12
 
   My Wolves Wanderers supporting husband enjoyed the Mixed Programme last Christmas, but having said that, he also enjoyed La Bayadere, does this count as wifty wafty?!


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Anneliese

31-10-01, 11:06 PM (GMT)
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16. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #13
 
   IMO it counts as utter tripe, which is subtly different from wifty wafty... my DH dismissed it as well!


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Ann Welsh

30-10-01, 10:40 PM (GMT)
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14. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #12
 
   And of course Sunderland United's signature tune is the Knights' Dance from R&J. Stirring stuff!


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Robert

31-10-01, 07:19 PM (GMT)
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15. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #14
 
   Wait until Matthew Bourne returns. His ballets appeal to a wide audience, they are exciting have good plots and are well danced to good music. I believe Matthew Bourne has brought more people into dance theatre than anyone else in recent years. If you look at his audiences you will see quite a lot of young couples.
I do agree with Anne Williams, despite Jimís protest, avoid Les Sylphides, I absolutely hated it as a young man, as it seemed pointless plotless and poncy.
I am amused at someone suggesting Forsythe, I think that would drive away any boyfriend.


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Anneliese

31-10-01, 11:08 PM (GMT)
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17. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #15
 
   I know at least one man who has sat through Hermann Schmermann just to see Sylvie's assets.


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Ann Williams

31-10-01, 11:26 PM (GMT)
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18. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #17
 
   Anneliese - surely you're not saying that Bayadere is 'utter tripe'? I count it as one of the most treasured ofclassical ballets.


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Anneliese

02-11-01, 12:54 PM (GMT)
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19. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #18
 
   Sorry! Dreadful music, dreadful plot, tedious beyond belief. The balletic equivalent of the Pearl Fishers, which I didn't even stick around to hear the end of. All of these just my opinion, of course... but I wouldn't go and see Bayadere again.


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Jim

02-11-01, 01:18 PM (GMT)
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20. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #19
 
   >Sorry! Dreadful music, dreadful plot,
>tedious beyond belief..... I wouldn't go
>and see Bayadere again.

You know it was one of Ninette de Valois' favourites?



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Paul A

02-11-01, 01:22 PM (GMT)
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21. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #19
 
   Anneliese, before you get pilloried I will agree with you.

Nobody's production has convinced me that this did not die years ago. Tedious indeed, that stomping about by the bald chap, that unconvincing fire centre stage - no narrative energy,hammy acting, cardboard characters. Why should we care?

I can enjoy the shades scene - done well enough, seen close enough to mesmerised (but not from upstairs). Do you condemn that too Anneliese?

Surely the only justification to preserving it must be as a vehicle to keep the corps and soloists upto scratch.


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jhanner

02-11-01, 03:34 PM (GMT)
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22. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #21
 
   agreed Paul -shades scene and the odd excerpt apart (esp Gamzattis' solos) its a bit of a pantomime of a ballet (Sort of a "It aint half hot mum " for ballet). That said I think theres a place for "spectacle" ballets like La Bayadere and Don Quixote that are there for the entertainment and dance values rather than for some wider artistic/dramatic reasons


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Anneliese

04-11-01, 04:34 PM (GMT)
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24. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #21
 
   IIRC what I most enjoyed about Bayadere (apart from Teddy K as Bronze Idol, always good for a giggle) was Zelensky in the opium - fuelled act - first time I'd seen him, I thought his dancing was wonderful. I have no clear memories of the shades at all! I think it was mostly the appalling music that I couldn't take. It may have been a favourite ballet of Madam's, but please remember that she wasn't quite of my generation (!) - these things do make a difference...

I actually rather preferred Don Q as far as meaningless jumping about to plinky plonky music is concerned - I prefer happy meaningless to melodramatic meaningless.

But each to his/her own!


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EmmaL

03-11-01, 09:07 PM (GMT)
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23. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #0
 
   Cathryn,
Wait 'til spring. The Royal's Romeo has to be the best bet. Passion, Fury and great music.
EmmaL


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Anneliese

04-11-01, 04:35 PM (GMT)
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25. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #23
 
   My tame philistine would agree I think.


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Liz P

04-11-01, 11:30 PM (GMT)
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26. "RE: West Bromwich Albion and the Nutcracker"
In response to message #25
 
   I'm not sure after inflicting West bromwich Albion on you he can be too fussy about what you choose! I spent a great night at Anfield on Tuesday watching Liverpool beat Dortmund with my two sons and husband. in the past he(and they) have indulged me with my ballet obsession and have watched a few things with me, they have enjoyed it all as long as ther has been a sense of occasion and not too many 'tights'. i think Romeo and Juliet is a good one as the music is brilliant and the story has a point. The tribal fighting etc also has its echo on the terraces!
As I've mentioned here before I think the ballet world could learn a lot from football-I'd love to watch 'dance of the day ' on a Saturday night with snippets of dance events around the country, especially with action replays and commentary! I'm the sort of fan who wants the scarf, the programme and the hot soup at half-time!


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