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Subject: "Don Q photos on ROH website" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Conferences What's Happening Topic #2214
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sylvia

27-10-01, 07:57 PM (GMT)
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"Don Q photos on ROH website"
 
   Pretty poor quality actually. Why don't they release more 'official' photos? What happened to all those cameras they had at the rehearsal? This is for anyone who's yet to see the performance...

http://www.royalopera.org/ballet/index.cfm?ccs=186&cs=298


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Don Q photos on ROH website lara 29-10-01 1
  RE: Don Q photos on ROH website EmmaL 31-10-01 2
     RE: Don Q photos on ROH website lara 31-10-01 3
         RE: Don Q photos on ROH website Bruce Madmin 06-11-01 4
             RE: Don Q photos on ROH website Claire S 06-11-01 5
             RE: Don Q photos on ROH website lara 06-11-01 6
                 RE: Don Q photos on ROH website Bruce Madmin 06-11-01 7

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lara

29-10-01, 06:25 PM (GMT)
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1. "RE: Don Q photos on ROH website"
In response to message #0
 
   sylvia,

These look to be stills from a video. Or they could be bad digital camera shots. Either way you are right, not good quality at all!


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EmmaL

31-10-01, 03:31 PM (GMT)
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2. "RE: Don Q photos on ROH website"
In response to message #0
 
   What do we want for free? Everybody knows that photographers will ask for payment for their photos to be available on the web. I'm just grateful that at last the RB are putting images on their site. Also, as someone who knows a little about computers, if you increase the quality you increase the download time for the pages - so there is always some sort of compromise.
I say - keep it up RB. If there is too much criticism the images will simply be removed and that isn't to our advantage.
Emma L


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lara

31-10-01, 07:47 PM (GMT)
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3. "RE: Don Q photos on ROH website"
In response to message #2
 
  
>I say - keep it up
>RB. If there is
>too much criticism the images
>will simply be removed and
>that isn't to our advantage.

Well to me, bad art is NOT better than no art at all.

Check out ABT's site and their use of images...good quality photos and they don't take an age to download. The ROH site could get rid of the music and that would speed up the initial opening of the site - which seems to take forever.

As for what photographers charge for putting their art on the net, most companies hire shooters to create images just for the purpose of publicity and such including internet use. The photos on the RB site look like ones taken by just any ol' body and not by professionals.


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Bruce Madmin

06-11-01, 03:11 PM (GMT)
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4. "RE: Don Q photos on ROH website"
In response to message #3
 
   >As for what photographers charge for
>putting their art on the
>net, most companies hire shooters
>to create images just for
>the purpose of publicity and
>such including internet use.

Its perhaps different in the US, but in the UK the contracts in place seem inflexible. Companies hire photographers to take publicity shots for sure but my understanding is that the contracts tend to spell out in what media they can be subsequently be used. Prior to the web all was covered and everybody seemed happy, but now that is not the case. I don't belive that companies are doing much more promotion work but where they are doing it is changing and its not clear that anybody is really doing much about it. The photographers feel that more is being made of 'their' work and want money/ compensation for it. Hence not many photos on UK dance web sites.

Its very easy to criticise RB and others but lets get some images out while the commercial people (hopefully) are drawing up contracts that enable companies to use paid-for images in whatever way best supports their needs.



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Claire S

06-11-01, 06:07 PM (GMT)
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5. "RE: Don Q photos on ROH website"
In response to message #4
 
   >>As for what photographers charge for
>>putting their art on the
>>net, most companies hire shooters
>>to create images just for
>>the purpose of publicity and
>>such including internet use.
>
>Its perhaps different in the US,
>but in the UK the
>contracts in place seem inflexible.

When a photographer is hired the rights are determined and detailed in the contract. The copyright is the most important right - this is often "bought" by the person commissioning the photographs, if not rights are negotiated for number of uses, the type of media the pictures can be used in or on. In my experience, the phrase "for use in all current media and any media not yet invented" is currently being used in many media contracts.

In 2001 I can't help thinking it would foolish to commission a photographer and NOT negotiate internet rights. I was surprised the poor quality of the DQ pics on the site but was even more surprised by the quality of the pics in the programme. While I understand that the programmes have to go to press before the dress rehearsal - hence we can't have any current pics - but can't we have general rehearsal pictures? They manage to do it in Paris. The pictures for Don Quixote are random and mainly pointless and there's little in the programme to warrant the cover price. I have almost stopped buying them - I can find plot details or ballet histories on the net.

I have to say that the quality of photographs in RB programmes is very poor. Compare what you get for your money compared to a souvenir brochure at a West End musical. This is one area in which the Hochhausers improve things - the programmes are generally glossier and have a lot more pictures of current cast members.

I have to say I agree that there's no excuse for shoddy pictures nowadays. If ABT can do it, surely RB can. ISn't this one of the greatest classical dance companies in the world? The website is much, much improved and I hate to sound as if everything is wrong at Covent Garden, but the ROH is very lacking in initiative on this sort of thing. I have never understood why more pictures of dancers are not sold at the House. I was delighted to see the introduction of colour postcard-sized photos of various dancers abotu 18 months ago but this seems to have almost died a death. I have pictures of Bruce Sansom and Sarah Wildor in Giselle that I now treasure, and there was a beautiful picture of Miyako Yoshida as Lise. These pics were almost hidden away, yet were amazingly good value and a lovely souvenir of a visit to the House. No-one can tell me that when a child has seen a memorable performance of a ballet such as Coppelia, they wouldn't love a picture of the ballerina to take home.

Ah, well.


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lara

06-11-01, 06:12 PM (GMT)
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6. "RE: Don Q photos on ROH website"
In response to message #4
 
  
>Its perhaps different in the US,
>but in the UK the
>contracts in place seem inflexible.

Here contracts can be changed - web use added for example. Are you suggesting that is not possible there?

Each photographer works with a company on usage for example, each of my clients has a different contract depending on intended use. Anything outside of that use is renegotiated.

>Hence not many photos on
>UK dance web sites.

Well I suppose you could say that, but then that wouldn't explain the very nice gallery on the ENB site or the lovely photos on the BRB site.

>Its very easy to criticise RB
>and others but lets get
>some images out while the
>commercial people (hopefully) are drawing
>up contracts that enable companies
>to use paid-for images in
>whatever way best supports their
>needs.

Sounds reasonable. It is up to the company and photographer to work all that out. The pay is not for the image itself but for the USE of that image. If more use or different use is needed then the rate of pay should go up.

Constructive criticism is a good thing btw. Sylvia's comment was not out of line and perhaps the powers that be at the ROH will get the messages that more quality images on their web site is a good promotional tool, which in the long run translates to more ticket sales.

>> "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."
-- George Bernard Shaw <<



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Bruce Madmin

06-11-01, 06:40 PM (GMT)
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7. "RE: Don Q photos on ROH website"
In response to message #6
 
   >
>>Its perhaps different in the US,
>>but in the UK the
>>contracts in place seem inflexible.
>
>Here contracts can be changed -
>web use added for example.
>Are you suggesting that is
>not possible there?

Of course all contracts can be changed. But both parties need to agree. I guess the lack of photographs indicates that one party wants money for the change and the other thinks that is not right... These things happen and you decide to pay or not. But I would certainly hope that all future contracts reflect companies needs and allows them to use images on the web in future. It would seem negligent if they just carried on signing the same old words. But its very easy to criticise - RB funding is still short compared to many institutions trying to do a similar job.

>>Hence not many photos on
>>UK dance web sites.
>
>Well I suppose you could say
>that, but then that wouldn't
>explain the very nice gallery
>on the ENB site or
>the lovely photos on the
>BRB site.

ENB have some great shots because they were very web aware very early (their original site was created before mine even!) and they worked with a photographer who sees the web as a great way forward. Not sure about BRB - perhaps they decided to pay as part of the project that first set-up their site? I don't think so much has been added after.

But I'm not particulalry here to defend any company, everybody ought to do better and that includes us. But for the life of me I don't know how we fit more in... and that makes me a little more tolerent than perhaps I used to be.


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