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Subject: "Room 101 (for ballet)" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Ann Williams

28-06-01, 09:43 AM (GMT)
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"Room 101 (for ballet)"
 
   Based on Susan's idea of a Room 101 for ballet under the 'Corsaire' thread, I'm starting a new thread here (but not before saying firmly that I do not think that anyone with a true understanding of ballet would want to ditch 'Corsaire'). Anyway, here are my first two suggestions for the dump bin:

1. Glen Tetley's 'La Ronde'..... anyone remember the horrors of that one?

2. The Kirov's 'The Stone Flower' choreographed, I think, by Grigorovich. It was as leaden and dull as anything I've seen and the music was by Prokofiev on a truly off day.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Room 101 (for ballet) sonia 28-06-01 1
     RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Paul A 28-06-01 2
         RE: Room 101 (for ballet) pantoose 28-06-01 3
             RE: Room 101 (for ballet) jhanner 28-06-01 5
  RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Joan 28-06-01 4
     RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Susan 28-06-01 6
     RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Shirley 28-06-01 7
         RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Robert 28-06-01 8
  RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Gerald 29-06-01 9
     RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Carly Gillies 29-06-01 10
     RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Ann Williams 29-06-01 11
         RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Trog Woolley 30-06-01 12
             RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Claire S 30-06-01 13
         RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Gerald 02-07-01 17
     RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Bruce Madmin 30-06-01 14
         RE: Room 101 (for ballet) b 01-07-01 15
         RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Gerald 02-07-01 16
  RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Anneliese 02-07-01 18
     RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Susan Black 08-07-01 19
         RE: Room 101 (for ballet) alison 09-07-01 20
             RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Anneliese 09-07-01 21
                 RE: shoes Amy 09-07-01 22
                     RE: shoes Anneliese 11-07-01 24
                         RE: shoes Amy 11-07-01 25
  RE: Room 101 (for ballet) Ted 11-07-01 23

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sonia

28-06-01, 10:47 AM (GMT)
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1. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #0
 
   Lar Lubovitch's Meadow. One word - yawn.


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Paul A

28-06-01, 11:45 AM (GMT)
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2. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #1
 
   Baiser de la fee, in both the Kudelka and MacMillan versions - much too much music and too little chorographic interest.


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pantoose

28-06-01, 11:55 AM (GMT)
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3. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #2
 
   Oh, and let's not forget to ax the Balachine version of Baiser de la fee, at least as the one scene excerpt the New York City Ballet performs on mixed bills. It's senseless, and the choreography wastes the most dramatic passages of music.


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jhanner

28-06-01, 12:27 PM (GMT)
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5. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #3
 
   Of more modern stuff:

the crucible by William Tuckett

And there was another thing a few years back called Dances with Death (Darcey was a most menancing version of HIV) that reminded me of when kids do "issue plays" at primary school

As I said in my other post, could happily live without the "comedy" moments involving tutors in Sleeping beauty and Swan Lake but I suppose that would involve consigning those 2 ballets to room 101 which I wouldn't want to do. Have to go with enigma variations -lovely music but ballet leaves me cold. Just looks naff to me!


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Joan

28-06-01, 12:23 PM (GMT)
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4. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #0
 
  
>I do not think that
>anyone with a true understanding
>of ballet would want to
>ditch 'Corsaire').

What's this game going to prove ?
Anyone who ditches "Stone Flower" has NO true understanding of ballet.


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Susan

28-06-01, 01:07 PM (GMT)
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6. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #4
 
   ....Mats Ek and all his works.


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Shirley

28-06-01, 01:10 PM (GMT)
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7. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #4
 
   >
>What's this game going to prove
>?

That people do not have the same tastes!


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Robert

28-06-01, 10:34 PM (GMT)
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8. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #7
 
   I am afraid Northern Ballet's Jeckyl and Hyde got the Room 101 treatment mid tour after disasterous critical attacks.


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Gerald

29-06-01, 09:35 AM (GMT)
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9. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #0
 
   I think that obvious rubbish which is not revived and never will be is a cop out for posters. These pieces are already in Room 101. no, what we want are nominations for pieces in the repertoire.
Oh, and by the way Ann, can you explain how and why liking Corsaire is the prerequisite for a true understanding of ballet ? Does this mean I should just give up going to, researching, reading and writing about the ballet and go and do something I will be better suited to sope with ?


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Carly Gillies

29-06-01, 09:46 AM (GMT)
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10. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #9
 
   Well I was going to suggest NBTs J and H, but as Robert said they've done it themselves ( mind you Act 3 might be brilliant for all I know )
So I'll take Geralds point and bin 'Nutcracker'.
Lets put an end to little children everywhere being asked to endure it as a "christmas treat" and to believe that all ballet is the same.
Mind you a brief revival in say 2020 would be acceptable for historical interest.


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Ann Williams

29-06-01, 11:43 AM (GMT)
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11. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #9
 
   >Corsaire is hopeless pap with next to no dancing of worth. To ascribe it to Petipa should get the Trades Descriptions people in - there is precious little of the master in this trite, overblown piece of schlock<

Gerald
The fact is that every knowledgeable ballet-lover of my acquaintance, and *all* the national newspaper critics - as far as I've seen - adored the Kirov's 'Corsaire' and the reason is probably that it is filled from start to finish with the most ravishing dancing, whatever the quality of the choreography ('next to no dancing of any worth' in your view). Apart from this, of course, there is the delicious panto quality of the thing, not to mention the knockabout comedy (I personally laughed out loud at Conrad's efforts to manoeuvre Medora into the sack and her coy attempts to pretend not to notice).

It pays to take your sense of humour to the ballet occasionally, Gerald.


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Trog Woolley

30-06-01, 10:50 AM (GMT)
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12. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #11
 
   Well the list is endless, but a definite recent candiate is Jeremy James "Gaps, Lapse and Relapse". A 20 odd minute piece of garbage with the most interesting move being a deep lunge. Also almost anything by Twyla Tharp.

In a similar vein, it seems to me that often the only "innovation" that contemporary dance has to offer is doing classical ballet steps but with flexed feet. The line and the look is lost.


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Claire S

30-06-01, 11:31 AM (GMT)
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13. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #12
 
   Great idea - OK, the obvious ones are The Crucible, (Aeon's Run from last year's Linbury season), and Tinsel and Sawdust (or was it Sawdust and Tinsel?).

I like the idea of The Nutcracker only being allowed out once every 20 years. I'd do the same with the first act of La Bayadere. Mister Worldy Wise might be allowed out after 30 years or so if Mukhamedov was still up to it (!)

I'd also dump Enigma Variations, plus Rituals and - dare I say it - Marguerite and Armand (great performances, dull ballet). Plus Scheherazade of course. Waste of the music and the dancers . . .


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Gerald

02-07-01, 09:14 AM (GMT)
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17. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #11
 
   Well Ann, if those critics all think it is great, then you MUST be right, because they are SO well thought of.
I give up. You're right. I surrender. I'll just give up and do something easier...like nuclear physics.
Sorry about not having a sense of humour either.


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Bruce Madmin

30-06-01, 02:11 PM (GMT)
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14. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #9
 
   >I think that obvious rubbish which
>is not revived and never
>will be is a cop
>out for posters. These
>pieces are already in Room
>101. no, what we
>want are nominations for pieces
>in the repertoire.

Yes - spot on!

>Oh, and by the way Ann,
>can you explain how and
>why liking Corsaire is the
>prerequisite for a true understanding
>of ballet ? Does
>this mean I should just
>give up going to, researching,
>reading and writing about the
>ballet and go and do
>something I will be better
>suited to sope with ?

So based on such wide and knowledgeable perspectives what would you propose?



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b

01-07-01, 05:09 PM (GMT)
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15. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #14
 
   how could anyone suggest Matz Ek. Anyone that thinks this should be locked in 101.


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Gerald

02-07-01, 09:11 AM (GMT)
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16. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #14
 
   Bruce, I don't claim to know a lot and I will always have a lot of learning to do, but I DO try. The fount of all knowledge I most certainly am not - I will leave that function to others on this site...!


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Anneliese

02-07-01, 04:59 PM (GMT)
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18. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #0
 
   Mats Ek's Giselle
Bayadere
Corsaire

um.... I must be too easily pleased - or maybe just so thrifty that I never go to see things I think I won't like!!

Oh, BRB's Peter and the Wolf - that didn't work at all, it was sensory overload.


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Susan Black

08-07-01, 09:57 PM (GMT)
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19. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #18
 
   ....the Kirov's pointe shoes.


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alison

09-07-01, 01:19 PM (GMT)
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20. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #19
 
   Oh yes, very definitely. (I'm sure I don't remember them sounding *that* noisy last year!).


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Anneliese

09-07-01, 02:16 PM (GMT)
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21. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #20
 
   They did! They've always been that noisy! But there was one woman who had quiet shoes - forgotten who it was, though. Was it Dumchenko?


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Amy

09-07-01, 02:42 PM (GMT)
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22. "RE: shoes"
In response to message #21
 
   Russian pointe shoes arehard (have you ever felt a pair of Russian shoes?), they are made differently to English shoes and have to be hard to suit the Russian style of dancing, also, dancers feet are getting stronger and require even harder shoes. There is also the money problem, the Freeds shoes worn by most of RB are more or less the softest of all break in well but wear out quickly, Grishko shoes for example last much longer. That said I do think that some of the girls shoes are excessively new and hard, but it is hardly their fault if the Kirov's punishing tour schedule does not allow time for shoes to be broken in.
By the way I believe Diana Vishneva wears Freeds.


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Anneliese

11-07-01, 04:30 PM (GMT)
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24. "RE: shoes"
In response to message #22
 
   I think I'd dispute that strong feet need hard shoes - it can be the other way round (if you're really strong you can dance in slippers!) I have to admit that I think Freeds are horrid shoes; a really ugly shape. I'm a Gambaphile myself!


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Amy

11-07-01, 07:35 PM (GMT)
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25. "RE: shoes"
In response to message #24
 
   >I think I'd dispute that strong
>feet need hard shoes -
>it can be the other
>way round
Ah, but the Russians are a funny lot! I think it's really down lack of shoes with very strong shanks, which their feet need, but with soft boxes, which weneed. Grishko's are now marketed as being extra quiet but I haven't seen much evidence of it yet, I shudder to think what they were like before!

>I'm
>a Gambaphile myself!
Me too, like dancing on air. Freeds are ghastly things.


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Ted

11-07-01, 04:48 AM (GMT)
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23. "RE: Room 101 (for ballet)"
In response to message #0
 
   Does this Room 101 farce serve any purpose at all? I guess not. To like or to dislike a particular ballet is so subjective that we all like or dislike that ballet for different reasons. For most if not all the ballet companies, their programmes must make commercial sense or they will go out of business. So if you like a particular programme, go and see it a few more times and skip those you don't like. Why force your own opinion on the others. In any event, all those ballets must make box office sense before they are being repeated. Shall we all get back to the real world now?
By the way, I am surprised at some of those who post regularly, it's shocking to see some of their remarks - by calling the others blind etc. Are we supposed to be a civilised bunch? Surely, personal attacks should be avoided at all costs. It's amazing that those in charge of posting will only insist on those contributing by giving their names but not monitoring or censoring those nasty remarks.


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