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Subject: "Mr Deane thread" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Conferences What's Happening Topic #1482
Reading Topic #1482
George Harrison

25-03-01, 02:15 PM (GMT)
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"Mr Deane thread"
 
   Well Bruce looks as though we were right about Derek Deane. Although you say the allegations couldn't be held up in court. It looks as though they were true. Maybe you should investigate a little bit more before removing threads. Maybe you shouldn't listen to freinds just pay attention to the facts.


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Mr Deane thread pmeja 25-03-01 1
  RE: Mr Deane thread Bruce Madmin 25-03-01 2
     RE: Mr Deane thread ismeneb 26-03-01 3
         RE: Mr Deane thread eug 26-03-01 4
             RE: Mr Deane thread Kate R 26-03-01 5
                 RE: Mr Deane thread Brendan McCarthymoderator 26-03-01 6
                     RE: Mr Deane thread eug 26-03-01 7
                         RE: Mr Deane thread Kate R 26-03-01 8
                         RE: Mr Deane thread Caz 26-03-01 9
                             RE: Mr Deane thread Bruce Madmin 26-03-01 10
  RE: Mr Deane thread Robert 27-03-01 11
     RE: Mr Deane thread eugene merrett 27-03-01 12
         RE: Mr Deane thread, a Plea....... Nobody 27-03-01 13
             RE: Mr Deane thread, a Plea....... Jim 28-03-01 14

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pmeja

25-03-01, 03:51 PM (GMT)
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1. "RE: Mr Deane thread"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON 25-03-01 AT 04:00 PM (GMT)

look, whoever you are, it's immaterial. if something is in a newspaper, one can post a link. if something is reported on television or on the radio, one can either post a link to a site or summarize the content. if charges are made in court, *to the extent that those charges and related materials are made public*, one can refer to them. to a certain extent, one can speculate on things made public. but the kind of writing you're doing hasn't got a place on a site like this or any other. and i not only don't know what you're talking about but i don't want to under these circumstances and probably not at all.

p.s. and remember, as you may have heard in school, "i before e except after c".


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Bruce Madmin

25-03-01, 04:16 PM (GMT)
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2. "RE: Mr Deane thread"
In response to message #0
 
   Sorry but I don't know what you are talking about on Deane. I haven't heard any more since I last posted. If possible please report factually what you have read. I would put the emphasis on factually because what was said before may have had some fact in but it came with a lot of bile which wasn't really necessary and left us all open to prosecution.

For the record I did not listen to friends but got sound advice and I also went to the trouble of contacting ENB which is more than I suspect anybody else on the original thread did.

I stand by my record of moderation on the this board and have but very rarely removed a posting. I'd also note that with less hot air and more thought you, and others, might have made some of the points you sought to without risking prosecution...

Finally it would be useful if you included your email address in any future posts and stood fully and clearly behind your words.


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ismeneb

26-03-01, 01:31 AM (GMT)
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3. "RE: Mr Deane thread"
In response to message #2
 
   While as a journalist I feel reluctant to trespass on this kindly and estimable website, serious allegations are being bandied about, with reputations, careers and potentially large sums in libel damages at stake. If anyone has any factual information that they believe to be significant, they can contact me in confidence. ismeneb@hotmail.com. Ismene Brown.


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eug

26-03-01, 01:31 PM (GMT)
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4. "RE: Mr Deane thread"
In response to message #3
 
   Censorship is abhorrant to me. But I draw the line at things that are very personal and is not substantiated by an authorized source. Only when a respected source makes the accusation should it be put on this web site.

It is simply a case of natural justice. A "respected source" such as a newspaper can be held answerable for any salacious material it publishes. It is much harder for us to be sued for libel as most of us have not given out our addresses!!! So the Natural Justice principal of the accused being allowed so seek redress is not applicable in our case.

As we are non-accountable we should be extra careful about "broadcasting" highly personal and salacious material.

I said more or less the same thing about the Royal Family in a previous posting. I have no respect for Royalty. But if they are just equal to us then they have same rights as ordinary people ie to protected from rumour moungering and unsubantiated accusations.

To be frank I did read about Mr Deane in a newspaper several weeks ago but I chose not to make an issue of it on the internet as I dislike unpleasant personal stories.


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Kate R

26-03-01, 02:50 PM (GMT)
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5. "RE: Mr Deane thread"
In response to message #4
 
   >Censorship is abhorrant to me.
>But I draw the line
>at things that are very
>personal and is not substantiated
>by an authorized source.
>Only when a respected source
>makes the accusation should it
>be put on this web
>site.
>
Eugene- surely one has to draw the line at the truth.

> It is simply a case
>of natural justice. A
>"respected source" such as a
>newspaper can be held answerable
>for any salacious material it
>publishes. It is much harder
>for us to be sued
>for libel as most
>of us have not given
>out our addresses!!! So the
>Natural Justice principal of the
>accused being allowed so seek
>redress is not applicable in
>our case.

> As we are non-accountable we
>should be extra careful about
>"broadcasting" highly personal and salacious
>material.

This is an outrageous and irresponsible comment. You are liable for what you say, if it is defamatory, and more to the point you are making Bruce liable, as the web-master. You should also remember that if you repeat a defamatory comment, even if it is published in a "respectable" newspaper, you are equally as liable as the newspaper itself. It is no defence to say that you read it in that paper therefore you thought it was true.

You should not think that attempts to hide will be successful. As I understand it Bruce does have means of tracking postings, and I am sure that if he was held to account he would not hestitate to name names.


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Brendan McCarthymoderator

26-03-01, 03:50 PM (GMT)
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6. "RE: Mr Deane thread"
In response to message #5
 
   Ballet.co would be liable for any defamatory remarks, no matter how anonymously they may have been posted. The tests applied by a court include:
*does it reduce a person in the eyes of right-thinking people?
*does it cause a person to be shunned or avoided?
*does it expose the person to hatred, ridicule or contempt?
*does it injure the person in their office, profession or trade?

The main defences to libel are:

1. Justification. PROVING that the statement is true
2. That it is fair comment on a matter of public interest. You need to show that the statement was an honest opinion and based on fact, and not motivated by malice, and was on a matter of public interest
3. Privilege - that the remarks complained of were made in parliament or in court.

But these are complicated defences, and I do not see how they could have been invoked in the case of the material that Bruce so rightly removed from the site.


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eug

26-03-01, 04:49 PM (GMT)
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7. "RE: Mr Deane thread"
In response to message #6
 
   What is irresponsible about what I have said. I made it clear that we should be extra careful as to what people say if we are not liable. If Bruce or the service provider becomes liable then we should be even more careful!!!

As many people post under false names it would in practice to be difficult to trace them. This is especially if they use one of the many programs available to disguise thier true indentity. And besides it is the service provider they go after as they are more likely to have deep pockets. Has anyone been sued for contributing to a news group?

It does come as a great surprise that simply repeating a newspaper article is no defence against liable. But this point is put in doubt by the subsequant poster who seems to know the law!

Regarding the reporting of the truth - certain things even if true should never publicised - If some reported that a dancer was impotent I would be utterly disgusted even if it was quite true. I know the truth is a perfect defence in the case of liable but it would be unacceptable morally. I also think that reporting the normal human weakness of politicians to be abhorant except in extreme cases!


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Kate R

26-03-01, 05:17 PM (GMT)
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8. "RE: Mr Deane thread"
In response to message #7
 
   I am sure I know nothing of the law...but the point I was making was on publication which is an essential element of the tort. A comment can be defamatory but there is no action unless it is "published". The other poster was commenting of what constituted defamation and the defences available.

On the subject of publication if a defamatory article is printed in a newspaper the writer, newspaper proprietor, and printer are all liable, as indeed are the distribitors. Each is treated as a separate publication. Hence my uninformed comment.

But then I find law very boring....shall we get back to more interesting topics, such as, dare I suggest it...ballet?


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Caz

26-03-01, 06:41 PM (GMT)
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9. "RE: Mr Deane thread"
In response to message #7
 
  
>As many people post under false
>names it would in practice
>to be difficult to trace
>them.

Have you not noticed that this message board gives out your IP addy to the world?


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Bruce Madmin

26-03-01, 08:16 PM (GMT)
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10. "RE: Mr Deane thread"
In response to message #9
 
  
I'm not saying a thing about what wizardry webmasters can wield other than to say it's more than you might expect and less than you might think!


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Robert

27-03-01, 04:16 PM (GMT)
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11. "RE: Mr Deane thread"
In response to message #0
 
   I am surprised that Bruce consulted anyone before removing the Derek Deane thread. Presumably he set up this ballet site as a ballet site. If people do not like Derek Deane and wish to make allegations about his private life they should do it to his face and take the consequences. Many people’s private lives do not bear too much scrutiny and I would hope that most Balletco visitors would be above that sort of thing. I am surprised that Ismene Brown is appealing for information, she has certainly gone down in my estimation.


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eugene merrett

27-03-01, 05:27 PM (GMT)
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12. "RE: Mr Deane thread"
In response to message #11
 
   I totally agree with the above thread by Robert. The only people who be under public scrutiny are those in a position of trust (ie school teachers) or public officers AND only if it is relevant. Perhaps individuals who are in show biz and public life and delibrately manipulate the media concerning their private lives are also fair game as well but I am not so sure!

Regarding trackability of posters - surely if I post via a Internet Cafe can they really track me? And are there not encyption programs that hide your identity?


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Nobody

27-03-01, 11:20 PM (GMT)
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13. "RE: Mr Deane thread, a Plea......."
In response to message #12
 
   Please excuse my response to all who have had there share of the " Deane Saga".( above)
I beg you all to give it a rest.In my humble opinion "You are only adding fuel to the fire".This subject does not warrent your money, time or energy.In the name of Mr B" ......Who Cares?"
You all have the intelligence to know this.
We are wasting valuable time discusing something that will take its natural course.
Let us get on with the real issues( New Sweedish Directors!!????).
One of which I am sure knows the in's and outs of such a company.
LFB/ENB has always had a bad time with its Directors.Beryl Grey was asked to leave/ resigne.The Peter Schaufuss saga.Ivan Nagy.
John Field resigned of his own accord.......and now Derek Deane.
Come on.......It doesn't need this much attention.!!! Let it go!
P.s Bruce you have my backing on this.Don't let this stupidity jepodise the site!!!!!!!


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Jim

28-03-01, 12:03 PM (GMT)
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14. "RE: Mr Deane thread, a Plea......."
In response to message #13
 
   >Let us get on with the
>real issues( New Sweedish Directors!!????).

So you want to change the subject to football?


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