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Subject: "Test if your racist!" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Conferences What's Happening Topic #1413
Reading Topic #1413
me

03-03-01, 01:30 PM (GMT)
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"Test if your racist!"
 
   Yale have done a test to check your mentality towards different racists. Even black students in yale who were used to white faces tested out to slightly prefer white to black faces.

http://buster.cs.yale.edu/implicit/measure3.html


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Test if your racist! Robert 05-03-01 1
     RE: Test if your racist! eugene merrett 05-03-01 2
         RE: Test if your racist! me 05-03-01 3
             RE: Test if your racist! Bruce Madmin 05-03-01 4
                 RE: Test if your racist! me 05-03-01 5
         RE: Test if your racist! Caz 05-03-01 6
             RE: Test if your racist! Steven 05-03-01 7
                 RE: Test if your racist! Bruce Madmin 05-03-01 8
                     RE: Test if your racist! Steven 05-03-01 9
                         RE: Test if your racist! eugene merrett 05-03-01 10
                             RE: Test if your racist! Carly Gillies 06-03-01 11
                             RE: Test if your racist! eugene merrett 06-03-01 12
                             RE: Test if your racist! Robert 06-03-01 13
                             RE: Test if your racist! Ann Williams 06-03-01 14
                             RE: Test if your racist! me 06-03-01 15
                             RE: Test if your racist! eugene merrett 06-03-01 16
                             RE: Test if your racist! Stuart Sweeney 06-03-01 17
                             RE: Test if your racist! Caz 06-03-01 18

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Robert

05-03-01, 10:36 AM (GMT)
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1. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #0
 
   Why?


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eugene merrett

05-03-01, 11:31 AM (GMT)
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2. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #1
 
   I am sorry that I am not sufficiently politically correct to welcome a general debate about racism on a ballet web site.

It is clear that some people find self righteous political issues so important (to them at least) that it must be discussed in arenas that have absolutely nothing to do with wit. I personally find it to be rather insidous that we are obligated to discuss non ballet political issues on a ballet website.

It reminds of the Soviet days where dancers were oblige to attend meetings to discuss Marxism and the triumph of socialism.

The inital posting should not be put on this website!


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me

05-03-01, 07:37 PM (GMT)
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3. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #2
 
   This from a man who treats this website as an economic forum


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Bruce Madmin

05-03-01, 08:26 PM (GMT)
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4. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #3
 
   Forgive me but I think that Eugene's contributions are always in the context of dance...

I have to confess I too was surprised by the original post. There seems no particular connection with what this site is about.


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me

05-03-01, 09:13 PM (GMT)
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5. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #4
 
   sorry, i thought because Ann Williams asked a question about an ink cartridge, it was alright to post messages like this. I just don't welcome Mr Eugenes aggressive attack. I would welcome his comment if it was made in a more friendly manner.


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Caz

05-03-01, 11:03 PM (GMT)
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6. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #2
 
  
>I personally
>find it to be rather
>insidous that we are obligated
>to discuss non ballet
>political issues on a ballet
>website.
>

>It reminds of the Soviet days
>where dancers were oblige to
>attend meetings to discuss Marxism
>and the triumph of socialism.


Who said you were 'obligated' to respond? If you don't want to discuss a subject, then don't discuss it!


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Steven

05-03-01, 11:16 PM (GMT)
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7. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #6
 
   "Princess Margaret is supposed to have said once that she hoped never to see a black member of the corps de ballet, a black swan." Sir Jeremy Isaacs, "Never Mind the Moon", page 255.

Who says the original comment had nothing to do with dance?


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Bruce Madmin

05-03-01, 11:23 PM (GMT)
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8. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #7
 
  
>Who says the original comment had
>nothing to do with dance?
>

By the same token anybody could post about anything because it was mentioned in a dance book at some point. I'm sure Ashton used a car or mentioned the weather etc

It would perhaps be useful to put what would otherwise be strange posts in some kind of context...


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Steven

05-03-01, 11:34 PM (GMT)
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9. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #8
 
   I do agree with you, Bruce. I only mentioned that quote because I remembered it - I'd put the subject into the much wider context of racism in dance and yes, I think the person who originally posted the message should have done the same. I assumed that was the intention.


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eugene merrett

05-03-01, 11:59 PM (GMT)
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10. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #9
 
   I think my comment that it was "self righteous" was too harsh. But I do dislike the crusading element to the posting. And that is the distinction between the posting from elsewhere regarding printing cartridges!

It is reasonable for people to take the matter of racism with the utmost gravity but they should not this very important issue to permeate into areas where it has no relevance. Otherwise we would have no respite from any political cause (including worthwhile one) that people feel strongly about.


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Carly Gillies

06-03-01, 09:44 AM (GMT)
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11. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #10
 
   Eugene, What are you on about ?
Me's original posting isn't even an opinion ( as far as I can see ) It's a statement of information, which presumably Me thought might be of general interest, and which most readers chose not to comment on presumably because they thought it irrelevant to this forum.
Perhaps you have some issues here ?

And regarding contexts, I now can't remember the original dance based contexts to previous postings concerning ( to pick the few that I can remember )Rupert Murdoch, the "pink economy", the Simpsons, or asians in Bradford speaking with a Yorkshire accent.


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eugene merrett

06-03-01, 10:33 AM (GMT)
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12. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #11
 
   Come on, Caz - the initial posting was an invitation to expose to ourselves the extent of racism that exist within and amoung ourselves.


You right about some of my threads have gone off the topic occasionally but they always start of with dance. Threads do go off topic just like this one has!

On another point in the thread - I have not read Isaacs book concerning Prince Anne deplorable comments on dance- but I am concerned that hearsay remarks should be published in a book. Unless the author heared the remarks or can clearly documented its source (even if he does not disclose it) it should not be published. It is so unfair on the subject as anyone can make up rumours about anyone. Thats why courts do not permit hearsay! Shakespeare Henry 4 part 2 brilliantly talks about the evils or rumour and the cowardly aspect of it - it is in the opening chorus. Am I going off topic now!


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Robert

06-03-01, 04:57 PM (GMT)
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13. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #12
 
   Eugene.
I am sorry to be picky but the so called racist allegation in Isaac's book was about Princess Margaret not Anne. I do agree with you though, anyone can say say someone made a racist remark. Jeremy Isaacs in the same book alleges that conversations and actions of his in television programmes The House were taken out of context. Maybe they were but I would treat his own allegations with the same suspicion.
By the way I notice everyone is arguing about racism but why should we bother to think about it when we are discussing ballet. Dance especially in America was very political between the wars but never very racist. Most people are too interested in the art form to notice the colour of skin.The posting is unwelcome but if we believe in freedom we should ignore it rather than ban it.
Apologies for not ignoring it in the first place!


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Ann Williams

06-03-01, 05:59 PM (GMT)
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14. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #13
 
   The posting is unwelcome
>but if we believe in
>freedom we should ignore it
>rather than ban it.
>Apologies for not ignoring it in
>the first place!<

Agreed, Robert, and no apologies needed!



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me

06-03-01, 06:00 PM (GMT)
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15. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #12
 
   Eugene : my posting was a statement, just some tid bit, something i thought people would like to know...not something to be argued about. It was certianly not n 'invitation to expose to ourselves the extent of racism that exist within and amoung ourselves.' If you think like that, then maybe you dont want to know how prejudiced you are...and i dont mean just about racism....but the fact that you always think yours is the right opinion.......you are so unwilling to compromise


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eugene merrett

06-03-01, 07:14 PM (GMT)
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16. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #15
 
   I stand corrected about Princess Anne and Margerat! Sorry but why do I associate bad publicity with HRH Anne!!

I agree that it should not be removed (especially after the interesting thread that has followed).

The issue is not freedom of speech but the decision to place it in a ballet website. If I launched a web site devoted to the Beatles and someone posted an article about Swan Lake I think it would be discourteous at the very least.

Moreover if anyone believes that they could post any topic they choose on any website or newsgroup then I think many people would be put off contributing or watching. I would not read this web site if it was dominated by non-ballet topics irrespective of how good they are.

Admittedly the posting about the Yale Racism is test was relatively small and by itself quite inoffensive. It is more matter of principal. How would you feel if I put a posting drawing attention to the latest Tory manifesto?

I am sorry but I am not convinced that it was a small tidbit. I think the last comment by Me in a rather personal posting says it all! I would also point that I do work in Brixton so I have more contact with minorities then most people. I am only interested in making money and as such I cannot afford to be racist!


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Stuart Sweeney

06-03-01, 08:27 PM (GMT)
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17. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #16
 
   Actually the really interesting thing would be to look at ballet in this context. While I agree with Robert that dancers are not racist, the institutions are another matter. I would ask you to count the number of Afro-Caribbean female dancers in the major UK ballet companies. If you have a question about the ability of black dancers, think about Dance Theatre of Haarlem or closer to home Sheron Wray, who looked so good guesting with Rambert last year.


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Caz

06-03-01, 11:47 PM (GMT)
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18. "RE: Test if your racist!"
In response to message #12
 
   >Come on, Caz - the initial
>posting was an invitation to
>expose to ourselves the extent
>of racism that exist within
>and amoung ourselves.

An invitation is not an obligation to post. No one is under any obligation to reply to any post on this board. Which makes me rather wonder why I'm bothering with this....


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