HomeMagazineListingsUpdateLinksContexts

 


 Ballet.co Postings Pages

 Some Special Threads:
  GPDTalk about George Piper Dances ! NEW !
  NBTTalk about Northern Ballet Theatre
  SBTalk about Scottish Ballet
  ENBTalk about English National Ballet
  BRBTalk about Birmingham Royal Ballet
  TodaysLinks - worldwide daily dance links
  Ballet.co GetTogethers - meetings and drinks...

  Help on New Postings


Subject: "Guillem in Film" Archived thread - Read only
 
  Previous Topic | Next Topic
Printer-friendly copy     Email this topic to a friend    
Conferences What's Happening Topic #1335
Reading Topic #1335
Tomoko.A

10-02-01, 10:52 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Tomoko.A Click to send private message to Tomoko.A Click to add this user to your buddy list  
"Guillem in Film"
 
   I heard a film about her or a film produced by her (I don't know which one) has been completed. The title is "Guillem". Do the readers in France know anything about this film ? Is it going to be shown only in France ?


  Printer-friendly page | Top

  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Guillem in Film Kevin Ng 11-02-01 1
     RE: Guillem in Film Tomoko.A 11-02-01 2
         RE: Guillem in Film Kevin Ng 11-02-01 3
  RE: Guillem in Film Liz P 14-02-01 4
     RE: Guillem in Film Viviane 14-02-01 5
         RE: Guillem in Film Caroline 14-02-01 6
             RE: Guillem in Film Viviane 14-02-01 7
                 RE: Guillem in Film Tomoko.A 14-02-01 8
                     RE: Guillem in Film Tomoko.A 14-02-01 9
                         RE: Guillem in Film Jim 15-02-01 10
                             RE: Guillem in Film Catherine 17-02-01 11
                             RE: Guillem in Film Jim 18-02-01 12
                             RE: Guillem in Film Catherine 18-02-01 13
                             RE: Guillem in Film Larry M. 18-02-01 14
                             RE: Guillem in Film Catherine 18-02-01 15
                             RE: Guillem in Film Viviane 18-02-01 16
                             RE: Guillem in Film Jim 18-02-01 18
                             RE: Guillem in Film Jim 18-02-01 17
                             RE: Guillem in Film Nikki 19-02-01 20
                             RE: Guillem in Film Caroline 19-02-01 19
                             RE: Guillem in Film Viviane 19-02-01 21
                             RE: Guillem in Film Larry M. 19-02-01 22
                             RE: Guillem in Film Jim 19-02-01 23
                             RE: Guillem in Film Diana 20-02-01 24

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic
Kevin Ng

11-02-01, 02:43 AM (GMT)
Click to EMail Kevin%20Ng Click to send private message to Kevin%20Ng Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
1. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #0
 
   This new film "Guillem", produced by Francoise Ha Van Kern, and was shown on 14 Jan. at the Theatre du Chatelet in Paris, just the day after the French premiere of Guillem's Giselle for the Finnish National Ballet. I wasn't there that day, but I understand that Guillem was present that night in the film premiere. The film was later that week shown on French TV.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Tomoko.A

11-02-01, 01:27 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Tomoko.A Click to send private message to Tomoko.A Click to add this user to your buddy list  
2. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #1
 
   Thanks Kevin for posting. Is this film a documentary about making of the Giselle ? Or is it rather a documentary about her career and life ? Will we have a chance to see it in England ?


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Kevin Ng

11-02-01, 02:29 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Kevin%20Ng Click to send private message to Kevin%20Ng Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
3. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #2
 
   Tomoko, this film is about her career, according to a French friend who has seen it. Hope that it will be aired in England soon.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Liz P

14-02-01, 00:12 AM (GMT)
Click to EMail Liz%20P Click to send private message to Liz%20P Click to add this user to your buddy list  
4. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #0
 
   There's a long article with some good pictures if you go to Imagidanse.com and then look under cinemateque de la danse/Guillem.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Viviane

14-02-01, 01:36 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Viviane Click to send private message to Viviane Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
5. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #4
 
   Tomoko,

I'm only realizing now that this posting is about the Guillem film shown on Arte (17th Jan.) (have just started to come down to earth )

"Guillem" is a 55min.portrait and shows Sylvie in a lot of different aspects.
It's not at all a film about her life, it's more an impression,
an atmosfere-image.
You see her during several rehearsals (also for her Giselle), on stage and back-stage, on holidays, photographic-work on the beach.
Sometimes it's quite "revealing" (literal).
It's more a 'reality'-picture and not a "star-movie".

Afterwards Arte broadcasted two modern choreographic works,made for Guillem. "Smoke" by Mats Ek and "Blue Yellow" (I think by Burrows).

I recorded this and can always make a copy for you.

Viviane.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Caroline

14-02-01, 03:32 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Caroline Click to send private message to Caroline Click to add this user to your buddy list  
6. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #5
 
   The film was very bad.If you love Guillem,you will be very disappointed because she doesn't almost dance.They are only rehearsal but the teacher doesn't say anything interesting.If you hate Guillem,as me,you hate her a little more:the film about her could'nt be like others,she is too pretentious!
(sorry for my english...)


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Viviane

14-02-01, 04:35 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Viviane Click to send private message to Viviane Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
7. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #6
 
   Caroline,

I think, this film is just a 'cross-section' through Guillem's life. Guillem in the spotlights and a Guillem who is sewing ribbons onto her pointe-shoes.
The contrast between the splendor of the opera-houses (the part the public can see)and the impossible narrow corridors,dreadful stairs and sometimes disconsolate dressingrooms.
It shows you that Guillem's life is -on one (little) part- just as ordinary and normal as yours and mine.

A few sequences had better been omitted because they seems to much 'staged' and the rehearsal you talk about was -indeed-too much 'arranged'.

This is not at all a 'starry dance-movie', and I can understand that a lot of people were disappointed because they didn't get what they were expecting.

I don't think you can call her 'pretentious' : if she was, she wouldn't be interested in working with young dancers...
and she wouldn't allow to broadcast her portrait in this way.



  Printer-friendly page | Top
Tomoko.A

14-02-01, 06:11 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Tomoko.A Click to send private message to Tomoko.A Click to add this user to your buddy list  
8. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #7
 
   Viviane, this film seems to be very interesting to me. I wouldn't be disappointed even if she doesn't dance at all in this film as I'm interested in her as a person, not only as a dancer. I would be really grateful if you could make a copy for me. I'll e-mail you my address.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Tomoko.A

14-02-01, 06:16 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Tomoko.A Click to send private message to Tomoko.A Click to add this user to your buddy list  
9. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #8
 
   Viviane, I can't get your mail address. Please E-mail me so that I can give you my home address. My E-mail : Tomokot17@aol.com
Thank you.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Jim

15-02-01, 11:05 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Jim Click to send private message to Jim Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
10. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #9
 
   > If you hate Guillem,as me,you hate her a little more:the film
> about her could'nt be like others,she is too pretentious!

Caroline, I can't imagine what it is about Sylvie's artistry that makes you "hate" her. You are free to formulate your own personal value judgements about the quality of her artistry. If you think it is not good, then I would say that you have a minority opinion.

However I am unable to accept your description of "pretentious". I find her rather modest, for example at the stage door she will sometimes slip away into the night un-noticed. She is also very creative and is undoubtedly a genius. You may not appreciate her interpretations, but I don't think that is a cause for hatred. There are some modern choreographers I do not especially like, but I do not hate them.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Catherine

17-02-01, 06:21 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Catherine Click to send private message to Catherine Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
11. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #10
 
   I understand that Caroline could not love Guillem. Hate is perhaps a very strong word. But how she said, excuse me for my english. Sometime, we translate word for word from french in english, and same words said or written has not the same sense.
I explained many time in other threads why I didn't love Guillem.
I recognize she has dance qualities that no one else has but she has defaults too. I never understand why she always changes choreography, just to be really different than other ballerina. It's easy to be different making other thing.
I think she could be the best making the same thing than the other but she doesn't try. "Guillem" documentary is not interesting.
A documentary as "Guillem at work" published in 1988 shows the two sides of the Dancer job and was more intersting with Dance highlights and not just rehearsal in studio.
In this documentary called "Guillem", Swan Lake in slow speed and in black and white is uninteresting. Guillem in front of sea, is unintersting too. What could interess the public who don't know dancer is too see highlight.
How I say about this documentary in a french posting, I heard two version at the pob, a job colleague said "What a wonderful dancer !" (It's only the fame of the dancer, it's not an opinion made seeing other dancer) and an other (a man) said "I don't understand why she passed time naked, what interest of this".
I remember an other thing. When I go in 1991 to see Romeo and Juliet with Vulpian and Le Riche, I heard my show neighbour said to friends "Guillem is a dream of dance !" and just after "Vulpian she is a young étoile ?" She must retire two years later. The only comment I could make it's she makes public interest to Dance, especially in France, where just Dupond, Guillem and Pietragalla are recognized. All the other étoiles are not known from public.
I'm agree with Caroline that this documentary when you don't love Guillem could continue to have the same thinks.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Jim

18-02-01, 07:33 AM (GMT)
Click to EMail Jim Click to send private message to Jim Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
12. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #11
 
   >always changes choreography, just to be really different than other ballerina. It's easy to be
>different making other thing.

But does that necessarily make her a bad dancer? I think she has said: "WHY must I always do things the same?". As a "freelance" dancer arranging her own contracts, perhaps she feels entitled to bring her personalised interpretation to a role. After all, if audiences don't like that, they will not buy tickets to see her dancing and she will go to sleep hungry every night. But there is no sign of that - audiences around the world demand to see her and her performances are the first to fill up.

I suppose this is provocative, but do you think it is possible that the French people feel resentful of Guillem because of the way that their national star deserted them and came to England where we regularly have the pleasure of her artistry?


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Catherine

18-02-01, 09:20 AM (GMT)
Click to EMail Catherine Click to send private message to Catherine Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
13. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #12
 
   I never said that it was a bad ballerina. I try to understand why ? It's not my favourite dancer, but I love her now. It's a criticism I make to her to always change.
I don't know if in England it's like that but in France, people come to dance to see ballet with Guillem because criticism speak about Guillem. They don't see an other version of the ballet or don't remember of it, they think it's THE true choreography.

The true ballet lovers, if they could be able to love Guillem - I recognize her sense of movement, fluidity, etc - don't understand her changement even POB dancers if they recognize her talent don't understand she changes all the pas. They said she was the best if she makes also the same thing than the other, why change.

I didn't love Guillem before she left France and I was not the onliest to think that. Our etoiles which had interpretation qualities often high level than Guillem were not considerated. All was for Guillem. She wanted all the "Première", dance where and when she wants.
Petipa is for me like Shakespeare or Moliere, you couldn't change his word. His word are his choreography and when someone dance or play them, they must respect what they wrote. It's not a question a free lance, you have better actor than other, in the same rule, and they don't change any word. I think all our etoiles in France are different and make exactly the same thing.

They could change the way of a diagonale because they are left hand or right hand, or if they change it's with Choreograph agreement. example in last Paquita the manege of man variation in the second act, first pdd was for Legris and Martinez, grands jetés sauts de basques and for Bélingard and Bart, jetés on the floor and sauts de basques. Letestu and Gillot, tall dancer jumps at the neck of Inigo in the second scene of first act just before he wants to kill Lucien, Osta doesn't jump. But it's Lacotte who ask for it. We have the same thing in Robbins' four seasons, in Fall, man variation has two version, one for Martins dance in Opera by Le Riche, one for Baryshnikov danced by Legris.

I think ballet lovers are not hungry because she is in England, I think if she stayed in POB she was againbetter than she is, because she will be really in competition with other talentuous dancer than her. She is a technical dancer, now she is a few more artist but all our dancer are Artist not technical dancer but for me it's more important. If she stayed in France, she learnt earlier to play and be more better than she could be.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Larry M.

18-02-01, 09:52 AM (GMT)
Click to EMail Larry%20M. Click to send private message to Larry%20M. Click to add this user to your buddy list  
14. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #13
 
   I think this new film on Guillem was one of the most uninteresting I ever came across. This judgement has really nothing to do with the massive artistic qualities of the ballerina, but this film is just a waste of time.

In fact, it's very curious but films like this have quite the opposite effect: those people who are not Guillem fans will even get more sceptical and discouraged. I've heard several reactions like the ones on this board. But then again this film only manages to show her as a selfish freak (it's so transparent that everything is staged), and I can't imagine that this is the actual purpose of a documentary (or is it?) In my opinion it's a wasted opportunity, but maybe here too, Ms Guillem wants to be different.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Catherine

18-02-01, 10:12 AM (GMT)
Click to EMail Catherine Click to send private message to Catherine Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
15. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #14
 
   It's sure that Ms Guillem wants to be different. She is not a dancer, she is a Star, with all pejorative argues.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Viviane

18-02-01, 12:32 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Viviane Click to send private message to Viviane Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
16. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #15
 
   I have some difficulties with the reactions on this "film".

You can not call this a film : there is no real story, no conventional plot behind it.
It's neither a documentary.

It's just what it is (no more and no less): a 'portrait' : an accumulation of images which Françoise Ha Van Kern uses to create an atmosphere and a 'view' on Guillem.
I agree this 'view' could be more powerfull if there were more sequences omitted.
I loved the black&white parts : they accentuate and abstract the pure lines. This is only possible through the film-medium.

I think -if you can watch this -UNPREJUDICED- you can appreciate a lot in it.
At least..I did, and I'm not an unconditional fan of Guillem.

Guillem says : "Je suis bien partout, parce que j'appartiens a nulle part..." .....
For me - this is the only spread-'message'from this portrait
(if you are looking for one !) : the lonely life of a star.



  Printer-friendly page | Top
Jim

18-02-01, 12:39 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Jim Click to send private message to Jim Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
18. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #16
 
  
>I loved the black&white parts :
>they accentuate and abstract the
>pure lines. This is
>only possible through the film-medium.

Well, I typed my last sentence before I saw this....
Maybe I will look out after all


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Jim

18-02-01, 12:34 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Jim Click to send private message to Jim Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
17. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #13
 
   Catherine,

> they think it's THE true choreography.

Yes, you have made a good point here.

>Petipa is for me like Shakespeare or Moliere, you couldn't >change his word.

And it is hard to disagree with that!

I think from what you and Larry have said, I will not bother to look out for the film.



  Printer-friendly page | Top
Nikki

19-02-01, 04:57 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Nikki Click to send private message to Nikki Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
20. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #12
 
  
>
>I suppose this is provocative, but
>do you think it is
>possible that the French people
>feel resentful of Guillem because
>of the way that their
>national star deserted them and
>came to England where we
>regularly have the pleasure of
>her artistry?


why would the french dislike Gulliem if she went off to england? It does'nt really matter...anyway shes french and is not even a permenant member of the RB. In the end POB is way better than the RB, so its the french who have the last laugh


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Caroline

19-02-01, 04:34 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Caroline Click to send private message to Caroline Click to add this user to your buddy list  
19. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #10
 
   Catherine explains perfectly why Guillem is not a wonderful dancer.Some journalists think the same:see Vittoria Ottolenghi in BALLET 2000!


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Viviane

19-02-01, 05:58 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Viviane Click to send private message to Viviane Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
21. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #19
 
   Well, well Nikki and Caroline ... how sad, these short-minded reactions.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Larry M.

19-02-01, 07:45 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Larry%20M. Click to send private message to Larry%20M. Click to add this user to your buddy list  
22. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #21
 
   Sorry neighbors I don't get all these arguments about Ms. Guillem. I thought the subject of this thread was the film (or the portrait, whatever) they made about her.

There is nothing wrong with the ballerina, like her or not, but this new documentary is just a waste of time and doesn't learn us anything about the lady. And if you really have to sit thru this whole thing to see a few clips of slow motion in black and white from Swan Lake, that's not enough to make my day.


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Jim

19-02-01, 08:21 PM (GMT)
Click to EMail Jim Click to send private message to Jim Click to view user profileClick to add this user to your buddy list  
23. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #22
 
   LAST EDITED ON 19-02-01 AT 08:24 PM (GMT)

>Sorry neighbors I don't get all
>these arguments about Ms. Guillem.
>I thought the subject of
>this thread was the film

I know, Larry, but it's fun to chat about it

Nikki: Well, who is to say? But I know that when Sylvie announced her departure from Paris it was stated in their Government to be "a catastrophe". But I don't care what anybody says, I love her and she makes me laugh and she makes me cry and makes my spine tingle and I would go to the end of the world (even Paris!) to see her dancing. So there! End of story


  Printer-friendly page | Top
Diana

20-02-01, 05:25 AM (GMT)
Click to EMail Diana Click to send private message to Diana Click to add this user to your buddy list  
24. "RE: Guillem in Film"
In response to message #23
 
   I am absolutely envious of you all!!! You can not only see Sylvie live on stage,but there are also documentaries about her in the movie theaters. I would love to see the film regardless of all the criticism, because here in US we are starving for a ballet and (myself in particular) for Sylvie Guillem.Take care you all.


  Printer-friendly page | Top

Conferences | Topics | Previous Topic | Next Topic

 
Questions or problems regarding this bulletin board should be directed to Bruce Marriott