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Subject: "Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker" Archived thread - Read only
 
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Tomoko.A

16-01-01, 10:47 PM (GMT)
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"Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
 
   Has anyone seen them ? Reviews please !!


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Nikki 17-01-01 1
     RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Michael 17-01-01 2
         RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Kevin Ng 17-01-01 3
             RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Fuzzyface 18-01-01 4
  RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Terry 18-01-01 5
     RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Marie 18-01-01 6
         RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Nikki 18-01-01 7
             RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Marie 20-01-01 25
     RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker alison 18-01-01 8
         RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Nikki 18-01-01 9
             RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Viviane 18-01-01 10
             RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Bruce Madmin 18-01-01 11
  RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Alicia 18-01-01 12
     RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Carly 19-01-01 13
         RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Nikki 19-01-01 14
             RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Viviane 19-01-01 16
         RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Fuzzyface 19-01-01 15
             RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker alison 19-01-01 17
         RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Carly Gillies 19-01-01 18
             RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker eug 19-01-01 19
  RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Monica K 19-01-01 20
     RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Alicia 19-01-01 21
     RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker JEAN JACQUES 19-01-01 22
         RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Eugene Merrett 19-01-01 23
     RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker Bruce Madmin 20-01-01 24

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Nikki

17-01-01, 10:47 AM (GMT)
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1. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #0
 
   Have'nt seen Rojo in any preformances, but the I saw Nunez in a Matinee she was playing the rose fairy....not that amazing I think, and a few comments I shared w/ the people standing next to me, she seems a bit to ..well plump to put it bluntly to be a ballerina...no stage preformance...I was looking mostly at the corps than her. Shame shes taking over Bussel in next yrs nutcracker....her body wont go at all well w/ bolle


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Michael

17-01-01, 09:25 PM (GMT)
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2. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #1
 
   Nunez was an extremely assured Sugar Plum, superbly partnered by Bolle. She is technically excellent, but has to learn to make the audience love her - she seems to be saying "look this is so easy, aren't I clever...." However the need for lessons in humility doesn't lessen her star potential, and she has such gorgeous neck and arm placement. On Saturday, they were definitely overshadowed in every way by Cojocaru and Putrov, dancing superlatively, and who really caught fire in their Act I pas de deux. They acted with great charm, and I think are a good partnership - more please.


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Kevin Ng

17-01-01, 10:37 PM (GMT)
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3. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #2
 
   Last night I thought that Nunez and Bolle lacked any sparks in the grand pas de deux. I was really glad to see again Cojocaru and Putrov in Act 1. Cojocaru danced Clara ravishingly with real feeling, and there was poetry in her pas de deux with Ivan Putrov.


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Fuzzyface

18-01-01, 01:09 PM (GMT)
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4. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #3
 
   Nikki, every time you talk about Nunez you mention that she is plump. Do you have a problem with that, or do you only dancers who look like stick insects?


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Terry

18-01-01, 03:16 PM (GMT)
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5. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #0
 
   I agree with Nikki...I saw Nunez last summer and I did think she was a little plump for a ballerina in MY point of view -- I guess some people prefer very slim ballerinas like e.g. Yoshida and Guillem, while others like the more "plump" ballerinas like Herrera (though she was extremely thin when she was promoted to principal at 20) -- it's all a matter of taste... but as for Nunez, she is still in her teens so her body is obviously changing, as all ballerinas do


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Marie

18-01-01, 03:24 PM (GMT)
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6. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #5
 
   I don't know about Nunez but like Terry said , teenagers have a body changing very fast.I would say that it's about 19 that the girls are most "plump".Then they lose a bit of weight one or two years later and have their "definitive" body.


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Nikki

18-01-01, 04:45 PM (GMT)
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7. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #6
 
   >I don't know about Nunez but
>like Terry said , teenagers
>have a body changing very
>fast.I would say that it's
>about 19 that the girls
>are most "plump".Then they lose
>a bit of weight one
>or two years later and
>have their "definitive" body.


i dont really agree w. that, as a teenager I know when my body gets plump or slim, and it all depends on your diet and exercise...not what age u are. Yes girls do gain weight at around puberty ie 12-15....but once you get to 14 ur body weight stays the same. and 19year olds are not plump...not at all...Nunz is 18, but as a ballerina she should not be as big as she is w/ all that exercise and their strict diet...maybe its her bone structure?


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Marie

20-01-01, 11:48 AM (GMT)
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25. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #7
 
   There are girls who have early puberty and others with late puberty.Dancers belong to the second category because of all the exercise they do.At first they grow(12-15) and then I meant that they took some weight at about 19 because of the boost of female hormons.And when it comes to hormon , you cannot control that much the appearance of your body!


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alison

18-01-01, 05:31 PM (GMT)
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8. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #5
 
   I quite agree that it's all a matter of taste, but I dislike criticising any given dancers' physiques on such a public forum (which some of them may be reading!), considering what a sensitive matter it is to so many of them (and sometimes to their artistic directors) and the fact that there may sometimes be mitigating circumstances that we're not aware of. Personally, though, it's the "stick insects" I tend to find the least attractive.


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Nikki

18-01-01, 05:42 PM (GMT)
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9. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #8
 
   >I quite agree that it's all
>a matter of taste, but
>I dislike criticising any given
>dancers' physiques on such a
>public forum (which some of
>them may be reading!), considering
>what a sensitive matter it
>is to so many of
>them (and sometimes to their
>artistic directors) and the fact
>that there may sometimes be
>mitigating circumstances that we're not
>aware of.

Criticsing a dancers figure is a grey area...ballet is an asethetic and physical art form. So its a combination of the dancers body and the way they use it...but it all boils down to the dancer using his or hers body as a tool..so is it fair to critise a dancers body?..maybe Im being too harsh..especially as a young person one is extremely senstive to comments about ones apperance. I agree Postings is such a public arena...but then its an arena to discuss whatever aspect of ballet you wish too.


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Viviane

18-01-01, 06:56 PM (GMT)
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10. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #9
 
   Nikki,

I'm sure you will learn that ballet is far more than an 'aesthetic and physical art form'..!
Indeed, don't be so harsh on dancers, especially if it concerns an 18-years old ! They need all our support !

I think we need to learn to consider ballet more in its entirety. (the first positive point of this is that you avoid disappointments when an principal isn't dancing)
Guard us for the day that all dancers have to become copys from the ideal 'arche-type' ! It's in the diversity that you can find the beauty and richness off life !

Mr.Spoerli (Zurich Ballet) said something beautiful on this.
When asked about the lack of principals in his company he answered : "my company is the star" !

Criticism on a dancers body is a bad and sad contribution to ballet.


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Bruce Madmin

18-01-01, 09:29 PM (GMT)
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11. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #9
 
   >Criticsing a dancers figure is a
>grey area...ballet is an asethetic
>and physical art form.

I'm glad some readers have made points on this. I sometimes talk about dancers bodies, but I'm always wary since its incredibly difficult to do with any sensitivity. I suppose it depends how many dancers you've seen over how many years and at first its probably best to just accept some dancers are not for you, but others probably appreciate them. Its fine of course to say that you don't think two dancers are matched.


>I agree
>Postings is such a public
>arena...but then its an arena
>to discuss whatever aspect of
>ballet you wish too.

No! I but rarely moderate but nobody should think that anything is acceptable. Dancers and others in the profession do look in - which is a strength - but we all have feelings and its a better world if we can make points without being particularly hurtful.

Perhaps you would feel a little got at if you arranged to meet somebody at Covent Garden and in a posting they wrote "I hear your the plump one with the buck teeth and sticky out ears"!


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Alicia

18-01-01, 09:33 PM (GMT)
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12. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #0
 
   >dont really agree w. that, as a teenager I know when my body gets plump or slim, and it all depends on your diet and exercise...not what age u are. Yes girls do gain weight at around puberty ie 12-15....but once you get to 14 ur body weight stays the same. and 19year olds are not plump...not at all...Nunz is 18, but as a ballerina she should not be as big as she is w/ all that exercise and their strict diet...maybe its her bone structure?

you seem to have so much authority in commenting on ur fellow teenagers. but i dont think all ur info is true either, and i suggest u don't make such unnecessary comments such as this one.
everybody's body is different and changing, and there are other factors that can lead to the kind of "plumpness" that u have suggested -- have you thought of smth like e.g. STRESS?


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Carly

19-01-01, 11:03 AM (GMT)
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13. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #12
 
   I hesitate to lengthen this thread.
However I would refer anyone interested to a couple of threads on criticaldance.com
You go to "dance forum" then "issues", and the 2 threads are "food for anorexic thought" and "the Keefer case's aftrmath".
There's a lot of intelligent exchange about body size and shape and it's relevance, and links to some newspaper articles.
( there's no doubt a cleverer way to put in the links )


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Nikki

19-01-01, 11:40 AM (GMT)
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14. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #13
 
   I apologise for my comments, i wont discuss or mention body type, its a subject that maybe(some of you would think not maybe but positvely!) im too single minded and opinionated about.


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Viviane

19-01-01, 12:48 PM (GMT)
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16. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #14
 
   Nikki,
My reaction was maybe too severe.
I know a girl (14 !) who is dying from anorexia.
One feels so helpless and at the same time so rebellious in this situation.

To end on a more positive note : I have enjoyed your ROH-tour posting. I think they just can't find a better publicity !
Viviane.


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Fuzzyface

19-01-01, 11:51 AM (GMT)
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15. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #13
 
   I find the "body fascism" prevalent in ballet at present deeply worrying and distressing. I find extremely thin dancers like Svetlana Zakharova almost upsetting to watch. I know it's all horses for courses, but can I just say that the greatest ballerina I ever saw was Lynn Seymour, and you simply didn't care if she was plump this week and slim the next because you were just thrilled by her wonderful dancing. I would much rather see wonderful dancing than ok dancing by a person who's physique happens to conform to a current fashionable "ascetic".


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alison

19-01-01, 01:08 PM (GMT)
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17. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #15
 
   Quite. (Although of course if they have both it's even better!). And I reflect quite frequently that I'd rather see a dancer with good interpretation than one with, say, hyperextension and a really amazing technique than no interpretive powers.


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Carly Gillies

19-01-01, 03:10 PM (GMT)
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18. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #13
 
   Someone cleverer just told me how to do it !
http://www.criticaldance.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000189.html
and
http://www.criticaldance.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000173.html

Both are worth a look at.


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eug

19-01-01, 04:10 PM (GMT)
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19. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #18
 
   The supposedly plump ballerinas are actually very thin but the stage and the very white costumes add "opitical pounds". I am not sure why the stage does this - perhaps it the lack of shadows on stage? Can anyone say why.

I also hear contradictory stories about diet and dancers. Some people say that dances eat "like locust". Other people say that the way dancer starve themselves is a "national scandle".

Regrettably I do prefer thinner dancers - I cannot help this but even I think some dancers are far to thin. I would not like to see a very thin Lise in La Fille. She should look fresh, healthy and energetic as befits the buccolic nature of the ballet

The issue of anorexia is more tricky. I think it is generally assumed that people are born with an anorexic "gene" but it is only triggered by enviromental factors. So ballet and models etc is not entirely to blame for this phenomena.

A more widespread problem is the obsession with thinness amoung teenagers today (but not aneroxia which really a medical problem). I think this is mainly due to the trivialisation of our society - where art, intellectual persuits, and serious matters are considered naff against being cool, sexual liberation etc. As a former teacher of accountancy at a London Tutorial College (a job I loved and want to return to) it is with considerable sadness that so many intelligent teenage girls succumb to this.


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Monica K

19-01-01, 04:11 PM (GMT)
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20. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #0
 
   Nikki destroyed the intended subject of this thread, which was meant to be information about the preformance of Rojo or Nunez, not a critque on their weight! Nikki if you want to discuss body type etc etc set up your own thread, this is for reviews not your own outlook.
Maybe as a young teenager you lack the maturity to post here, go back to yahoo.com/chat and you'll possibly find people of your same maturity, this is a proper board for more mature and knowledgeable people.


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Alicia

19-01-01, 05:34 PM (GMT)
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21. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #20
 
   Monica
After all, people make mistakes and we all learned a good lesson. I still don't think it's appropriate of you to say that Nikki lacks the maturity to post here -- it's open to everyone of all ages. I am sure that she has learned from this, and I don't think you need to tell her to go somewhere else. What makes you think you're "mature" enough to post here ?!


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JEAN JACQUES

19-01-01, 08:20 PM (GMT)
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22. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #20
 
   HELP BRUUUCE ! WE NEED YOUR HELP ON THAT ONE !


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Eugene Merrett

19-01-01, 11:59 PM (GMT)
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23. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #22
 
   With respect Monica your comments were not justified or fair. Nikki seems perfectly mature and intelligent.

We should not avoid issues because some make take offense or is not politically correct.

With the media dominated by thin actors TV personalities etc it hard not expect dancers to be thin as well. We are all prisoners of current convention.

Future generations will be harsh on us for what we expected from woman just as surely as we are harsh on the Victorian age that forced women into corsets. But I cannot make myself want to prefer woman who are less thin without self denial!


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Bruce Madmin

20-01-01, 08:33 AM (GMT)
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24. "RE: Rojo & Nunez in The Nutcracker"
In response to message #20
 
   >Nikki destroyed the intended subject of
>this thread, which was meant
>to be information about the
>preformance of Rojo or Nunez,
>not a critque on their
>weight! Nikki if you want
>to discuss body type etc
>etc set up your own
>thread, this is for reviews
>not your own outlook.
> Maybe as a
>young teenager you lack the
>maturity to post here, go
>back to yahoo.com/chat and you'll
>possibly find people of your
>same maturity, this is a
>proper board for more mature
>and knowledgeable people.


This is an unacceptable post.

There is no exucse for this and that it talks of maturity is more than a little ironic in the circumstances.

This is a broad church and *all* are welcome to post. By all means debate what people say but personal attacks are no way forward.

I think its great when new people come along and are eager and excited by dance and talking about it. Sometimes inappropriate comments are made and we can, and do, make points about how it might be best to talk about dancers or whatever. Thats fine and proper and we all learn in the exchange.

Above all we need to remember that we are all here because we love dance and there is more that binds us togther than drives us apart. We will never all hold the same view, so lets just enjoy exploring our differences.


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